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| Viewing Page 1 of 1 (Total Posts: 4) |
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erik
 Aug 3, 06 - 7:05 AM |
Body-Mind
hey Ravil about your solution to the mind body problem, I think it is a way of looking at things, but still needs a lot more working. In my view you are here dealing with a paradox, and paradoxes have a way of reproducing themselves. A closed circuit for the mind seems very plausible in fact and although a sort of division into different categories between the physical bio-chemical reactions and "pure-mental" activities becomes possible, respectively external and internal in the meaning that they may obey different laws, it still leaves the mental to its internal subjective nature. Although I myself have no problem with this I am not sure how this will stand with your theory. If I pair up your theory with the experience of psychoanalysis (from Lacan's point of view) it becomes obvious that the internal phenomena is enabled by the existence of language. In fact the internal phenomena is language. (Consider Laca famous statement that "The unconscious works like a language.") So when you give the example: "...it is possible to break ones own head attempting to compare directly such things as, for instance, the condition of My bank account and Your normal desire to receive some money. The absurdity of such direct comparison is obvious to any serious person. Solely I and You may be compared in the given situation as material bodies (and members of a society). And the result of our informational - material interaction may be a certain financial exchange process. It will moderate the dimension of my bank account and will satisfy your mentioned above normal desire. Only that’s the way!" it seems to me that this is still the reproduction of the paradox which I mentioned. It is true that physically things make sense and can only happen in the order you described them, but mentally "your bank account" and "my desire to receive some money" may in fact be equilized and considered the same. In Freud's theories there are many examples of analysis which your example seems to reproduce, analyses which show the easiness with which the two different states are confused and paired together, one being a symbol or a metaophor of the other in layers as it were, one atop of the other. Because this is precisely how language works, it embodies in it an Imaginary dimension and a symbolic one, both of which try to capture the real, but always with the strange result of dragging the real to themselves rather than portraing it. Very much like your example of the map where they move your dwelling in order to obey the map. But this is the reason why such theories (the old ones I mean) have hold up, because they obey language (thus destroying the real) but without knowing, thinking that they are in fact situated in the real (with the result of dismissing the effects of language [the internal as you said] and only glorifying reality or objectivity. So in a way then, doesn't objectivity spring from subjectivity? |
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Ravil
Sep 4th, 2006 - 1:53 PM |
Re: Body-Mind
In fact the internal phenomena is language. I perceive that to reduce all to language today is cool. But in my opinion, it is no more than cool rush aside to another extreme. Concerning a role of tongue I have clear idea. There is an inner life, there is an external world and they are self-contained under the attitude to each other. But they interact with each other, have range of mutual intersection. It is easy for figuring on Venn diagram (from logic). Here 1 - inner life, 2 - external world, and 3 - range of their intersection, interpenetrations. All interaction of two worlds occurs through range 3. In it mutual accommodating of the worlds, acclimatization, and development of special mechanisms for interchanging by interactions occurs. So interaction happens through the special canals, specialized sense bodys: audition, sight, an olfaction, touch, taste. Through these canals the person transmits and gains the information. Only two canals from five – audition and sight – use a coding method of the transmitted information as language. Thus, language concerns only specific range of touch of the internal and external worlds 3 and at all does not exhaust it bodily. So there are no reasons to count tongue such a universal grade. |
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Ravil
Sep 6th, 2006 - 1:28 AM |
Re: Body-Mind
So in a way then, doesn't objectivity spring from subjectivity? My basic thesis: in a human organism there are no only mental or only physical phenomena. The same ways, as there are no icebergs with only surface or only a diving part. There are complex phenomena, simultaneously introduced in different fields. Those phenomena, which some consider only mental, actually are accompanied by processes on a phisical layer, flowing on laws of nature. What allows a mental orb to be discharged in something independent? An actual physical autonomy of the conforming department of a brain as which I have termed "mindbase". The autonomy of this department is founded on the closed causal circuit existing in its bowels. Its special intrinsic ring determinism allows this department to contrast itself to a remaining brain and world around. The independence and unique exclusiveness of man's reason also is founded on this physical platform. Processes in "mindbase" are represented simultaneously both in mental and in physical orbs. Therefore they can also be setting in by two means: through the composite logical circuits of reason and through simple biophysical circuits. Here it is possible to talk about interaction of motives of a different level of complexity. When the logic motive counters to biophysical, the drama to which exposition the literature and art devote a huge place starts. |
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Ravil
Sep 6th, 2006 - 1:32 AM |
Re: Body-Mind
"...but mentally " your bank account " and " my desire to receive some money " may in fact be equilized and considered the same. In Freud's theories there are many examples of analysis which your example seems to reproduce, analyses which show the easiness with which the two different states are confused and paired together, one being a symbol or a metaophor of the other in layers as it were, one atop of the other." The mind is capable to bridge the most different things in the most exotic order. A pet joke of our military men: it is possible to rank a shoe sweeper in squad artiodactyls, but it will not give some milk in result. In a state of dream, painful delirium or the mental derangement the mind makes up such associations which shock normal people. In this connection it is necessary to reflect: whether there is in this boundless chaos of mental arbitrariness any base, permitting to put things in order? The answer: there is no such base within the framework of the pure mind (!). The mind is forced to turn for order to the physical reality existing beyond its bounds, in other words, he should commit the transcendent act. Therefore the one is considered as the sane person who restricts arbitrariness of the mind and heads for close correlation of mental processes with the conforming physical processes in the surrounding Nature. |
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