14 and 16r old kids.
Dad went with NO contact from them when the youngest was 10-13... Now he is tryin to enforce our custody agreement. Went before the referee last July and he told them they had to spend 6weeks of summer with him. They HATED it. He as an alcoholic, drug addict and in an abusive relationship (he says this is why he stepped out of their lives to protect them- but that is being said AFTER he did it, he could have explained it before) He is no longer doing those things or with the abusive woman... But it changed him completely...
He missed a very important time for them both and they feel disconnected. They want to see him but on THEIR terms not under force. We live out of state which makes it more complicated.
They dont want to go. If they refuse I know I am in contempt - but how do you FORCE them to go at this age? And what if I dont... Would I really go to jail?? I am pregnant and have a 2 yr old so jail would not be good.
There are other reasons as well (not that the referee listened) #1 5 day visit kids get there no clean dishes- son goes to wash a cereal bowl -moldy... their last day there their "chore" was to wash the dishes (which had yet to get done the whole time they were there)
#2 their are 5 children under 11 in the house between my ex and his girlfriend - my teens babysit a lot with the promise of payment which they usually dont get.
#3 the kids have school things to do during thier vacations.. They are both in JROTC and there are volunteer things they can do. Is it required, no. But in order to move up in rank they need to participate in some of these things.
#4 Their father is not the Dad they knew, being forced into a relationship makes them HATE him and when they turn 18 they both say they will never speak to him again. how do I make him see if he just lets go a little they will in turn come around and WANT what he wants... but forcing it is driving them away.... Any thoughts on all of this would be greatly appreciated!!

Rebecca

You are correct that you will be found in contempt if you do not allow the children to go.....but who says you have to not allow the children to go for them not to be available for the visit. Could they arrange to be visiting a relative (out of state) when their father arrives to pick them up? Perhaps they may get a little help figuring out how to run away during this time to a safe place, unknown location to their mother....hopefully you ge the idea.
Anyway if this can not be arranged the first time you are found in contempt will probably not be jail time, nor the second or third. But eventually yes it will be jail time. The first time you are found in contempt it should just be a lecture and a slap on the wrist, the second time a little firmer. Perhaps the cost of a contempt charge is worth their sanity. You will have to pay all court charges associated to finding you in contempt, his attorney fees.
My ex was found in contempt many times during our divorce process, never paid the charges, never served any jail time, a simple order to comply was all he got.
You really have such a short amount of time, perhaps the children could figure out how to disappear during these visits and how could the court find you in contempt if you did not have anything to do with their dissapearance after all they are almost old enough to be considered adults?

I'm not one on advice here, but I am going to vent here. I am SICK AND TIRED OF FATHER'S RIGHTS!!!!! We wonder why we live in such a messed up society. Really? With the divorce rate as high as it is there are a lot of kids living in split homes. These kids are forced into and out of relatinships. They become cold, hard adults. If you want them to be compassionate adults they need to learn that...it is modeled. We are all so exhausted from trying to keep the little bit of normalcy in their lives that we can that we don't have any time or energy left to lobby for these law changes. I believe and have always believed that if a parent leaves their child, they should not be allowed to meander back into their lives and turn their lives upside down. Contact, fine. Turning their lives upside down...I don't thinks so! One reason I stayed with my stbx was to avoid all of this. He didn't have time for them when he was here so I had all of the responsibilities and did most of the things with them. I was the parent...sometimes he would wander in and be a fun friend. That's not changed, except now he sees them more. I encourage my kids to tell him how they feel and he does usually honor their wishes to staying only one night instead of 2, etc. Really, he doesn't want to be tied down to that. I'm just afraid at some point it will all blow up in my face and my kids will be hauled off kicking and crying. IT IS NOT FAIR. OK, I'll come down off my soap box now.

Amen Becky. I will stand right beside you on your soap box. I am tired of my ex getting to do what he pleases.
If you ask me, and i know you didn't but I am going to say it anyhow.
My ex held a gun to his f**king head in my bathroom right below my kids room. He claims he is a caring, loving father but he LOST HIS RIGHT to call MY children HIS that day. He shouldn't be allowed to even be close enough to my kids for them to smell his breath. I am angry at the system. I am angry at my ex. I am angry that my children are shuffled every other weekend to his house when he did not want to be a part of their lives when we were married. I like you do not have the time, energy or $ to fight so I am stuck being screwed over and over and over again by the laws.

Not only do we get screwed over and over by the laws, but the kids do too. Sad deal.

I am all for EQUAL rights... BUT he CHOOSE to not utilize his rights for 3 YEARS... and had I filed those stupid papers I wouldnt have a problem, they would have taken his rights.... but because I made a mistake THEY get screwed??? I just dont get it...
And my issue with giving my kids advice like "run away" the night before (I have to drive them 500 miles to their father) then I can call cops and say Oh my they ran away.... is that I raised my kids too well I think - they respect everyone and everything... They hate going, but they arent rebellious so have a hard time telling Dad "I am not coming" if they wont tell him I cant do much... THey are having a hard time fighting for themselves (to me they tell me everything just fine because we have great communication) but they FEAR telling him?!?!?!

I might accept EQUAL rights if equal RESPONSIBILITIES went along with it. Up until the separation I did 98% of the parenting, homemaking, etc. and worked full time as well. So I would be dead dog tired as I paid OUR bills, did OUR dishes, fought with OUR kids over homework, etc. Yet now he gets to waltz in a take time with MY kids away from me? If he had stepped up to the plate while we were still married I may feel differently. I feel cheated. He decided to control the situation with our divorce by not paying one dime toward child support or our other financial obligations. Yet he has equal rights? I guarantee if he knew his rights would be infringed upon if he didn't take care of his responsibilities I wouldn't have to be paying an attorney to get child support. Rights and responsibilities should go hand-in-hand.

I agree. It used to be if you didnt pay child support you didnt get your visitation... I AGREE wish it was still that way!!! Now if you lose your job or something I understand - go to the court explain the situation, but take responsibility... If I didnt buy food my kids CPS would take them away! But they (non custodial parents, women or men) just figure this is "extra" money for us?? ??? grrr...
Talked with my kids. Told them they HAVE to start NOW telling him they dont want to go for Christmas... My son refuses to "run" away- Daughter would... Told him its more like a play that we put on for the courts and their father... I dunno whats gonna happen....

Wishing you luck. My kids are 8 and 11. I, too, tell them they have to tell their dad how they feel. Now, if your kids make the time together completely miserable, chances are "Dad" will think twice before another extended stay. Not that I want your kids to be miserable, but we all know teens can make things very unpleasant when they decide to.