I have a 90 4-stroke Honda and I'm storing it at my place instead of at a marina like last year. Do I winterize it just like my 1993 15 Johnson 2 storke, or is it a whole new ballgame. The Honda is a 2005

Thanks Joe, I was going to ask the same dumb question, as most of the people here trailer thier boats and must have to winterize them, etc. I didn't want to sound dumb, so I was going to ask one of my fishin buddies, but since you stepped right up, I'll join ya..

Now that I have a trailer, a big part of my justification was an end to Marina bills for winterizing, shrink wrap and storage, etc.

Mine is a 115 Honda 4 stroke, we have our own mechanic that works for us, just need to tell him what to do. Checked the oil the other day was down 1 quart for a whole season of trolling, not bad or is it ??? Do I drain it all and change it, seems like a good place to start, but what about he lower end, etc ????????????? Leave the battery in, yes/no ???

Hope I'm not making a mistake doing it ourselves, my boat started right up every day and never skipped a beat for 3 years. I think they put in new plugs and battery 2 or the 3 years, on my request, is this a good ideas as well.

What else has to be considered, I use to have nightmares about a dead battery, etc. at 4:00 in the morning. Keep a battery pack in my boat, never had to use it.. but helped quiter a few other boaters.

Thanks for any advice,

John S.

I'm def. no pro but you do have to winterize your lower end because theres still water in there and if you don't get it out and it freezes you could ruin your lower end (Very Costly mistake) Robert always does his and i still haven't mastered it yet so i let him do it LOL Ask someone like Travis or Rick@BBW he does that stuff for a living he would know!!!!!! Take Care God Bless and Tight Lines LOL Dave From up North

i have a suzuki 250 four stroke, my guy does not fog it because he says it screws up the electronic ignition, but he says to change the lower unit oil, and engine oil, charge the batteries and put them in your cellar. do not want to think about it now though, to depressing, we still have almost 2 weeks left to fish

ilucas

Guys - I've got a Honda 90 4-stroke (2004) and I learned how to do my own winterizing last season. I'll share more details if you need them, but here is what I did. I pieced this procedure together from internet sources and checked with a very good local Honda tech who was willing to tell me how to do this ("the cheap stuff"), as I already plan to use him for the more complicated things:

1. If you can not completely drain your gas tank, and I mean COMPLETELY, then COMPLETELY FILL your gas tank. First, I put in enough "Stabil" additive for the full tank volume (a guzzling 34 gal in my boat) and then I top off the gas tank. The Honda 4-strokes are actually designed to use and run best with the lowest octane, "regular" unleaded. I confirmed this with my local Honda tech.
2. Run the engine at idle for a few minutes to circulate the fresh/stabilized gasoline--use the clamp-on water flusher to feed the water intake if you're on land. The cheapo clamp on type garden hose attachment fits the Honda's water intakes beautifully. After a a couple minutes disconnect the gas line from the motor and continue to run at lowest idle until the engine burns out the residual gasoline and dies out on its own.
3. Wait until engine is still warm but not too hot to the touch. Pop the cover, orient yourself with the location of the oil drain plug and fill ports, and then drain all the oil. Note -- when its almost done draining, the oil will start dribbling and running down the side of the motor...so I scrambled and started packing paper towels to suck up the last drips of oil to keep it clean.
4. Refill with fresh oil. I'm using Castrol.
5. Remove oil filter (carefully unlike I did once to avoid spilling residual oil) and replace with new Honda oil filter. You can pick up the Honda filters for a Honda auto dealer / parts department -- basically its the same filter as some of the smaller Honda civics.
6. Drain the carberators. This took me a little time to figure out. There is a drain port at the bottom of each carb--I used a 1-2 ft long piece of plastic / silicon tubing (about 1/8 in ID?) attached to each drain port and drained each carb one at a time into a plastic cup (recycled back to the gas can). Check the inside base of the motor below the carbs. The owner's manual says it comes with this drain tube (it should be attached to one of the carb's drain ports). Mine did not come with the tube so I improvised. I also worked from top to bottom on the line of carbs and then rechecked each one when done.
7. Fog the cylinders. This is "the" important step and helps prevent corrosion from condensation build up. My 90HP does NOT have a "fogging oil" port, some Honda '05 or '06 may have this. (I know some other outboard motor brands have a port). John S -- your 115 has EFI right? I think most of the larger Honda motors with EFI may also have a fogging oil port. If you have the port, you should have directions...There are special "brands" of fogging oil that come with a tube that you plug into the fogging oil port if your engine is so equipped. But I don't have the port, so for me this was about the trickiest part. First, make sure the engine is no longer hot (luke warm or even cool to touch). Remove sparkplugs one at a time and spray fogging oil into each cylinder. With all sparkplugs removed and all cylinders fogged, put your key / safety cords in the console / motor and turn over (with the starter motor only) for a couple seconds to distribute the fogging oil in the cylinders.
8. Replace the spark plugs (I replace with new plugs at this time) and tighten as per instructions in the owners / motor manual. I forget exactly how much of a turn past fingertight, so read up on that and don't overtighten.
9. Check your owner's guide, but at certain time points (100 hours, 200 hours, etc.) they also recommend a periodic changing of the gear oil in the lower unit. Because this is an opportunity to introduce grit and potentially screw up a complex piece of machinery, (and because I don't have the right tools), when I get to that milestone I'll have my local Honda tech do that. All I did last year was to loosen the bolt to check the color of the lower unit's oil and it was fine. I think the rule of thumb is if it looks like oil its fine. If its off color or milky / whitish, thats an indication of a problem with the lower unit's oil or even the integrity of the lower unit. Thats above my head.
10. Disconnect and remove your battery from the boat, then charge it up and store it inside if you can. Don't rest it directly on a concrete surface. I know its supposed to be a wive's tale, but there is really some truth to it--I killed a trolling battery that way. I store my batteries in my bus. warehouse on top of pieces of 2x6 lumber. Works.

And that's that. It took me a while to research this and be comfortable with it but after I did it it was not that hard at all and it saved me $150+. I followed this procedure exactly last winter and the motor started up beautifully first time (in cold weather) and I ran it all year with no problems, and no drop in oil at all. One slight twist on this procedure(recommended by another mechanic) is to NOT replace the sparkplugs when you winterize the motor but to wait until after your first trip out next year, the logic being that the residual fogging oil might foul the new plugs...but I did not do that and had no problems at all. But, if you're really anal, waiting to change the plugs until after your first trip out the following year can't hurt.

FYI -- this same basic winterizing procedure works for all your small engine tools, mowers, weedwhackers, chainsaws etc.. The main difference is that for small engines you should open up and remove the air filter while the engine is still running on fumes (before it dies) and then you spray the fogging oil right into the throat of the carb. It will smoke and choke and gasp, this is allright, just do this a few times until it runs out of gas and thats it, you're done. I did this on all my little engines for the first time last winter and they all ran better this year than last.

-Eric H.

eric nailed it pretty good , beyond the basics it comes down to personal preference .
smaller hp hondas (carb model) have ports in the intake for fogging and carb sync purposes , the larger have a large air bleed port just downstream from the throttle body ( a short 1/2" hose with a 90 deg bend ) the other you can fog thru what appears to be a pcv line vented into the intake on top by the timing belt . if at all possible , fog it from the intake side and all internal parts will get it as well as the entire exhaust leg .
change the oil and filter -
change the gear oil ( with new gaskets on the plugs if possible )
remove the prop and thrust washer to check for fishline , lube the prop shaft .
grease the fittings in the tilt tube and main steering shaft (on the side )
stabalize the fuel system and change spin on fuel filter - if you have one .

not a big advocate on draining the fuel system unless water contamination is a given , draining the fuel has its pros and cons - good clean fuel now will still be good come april 1 .
don't bother with tune up stuff till spring and then run it to remove all fogging oil before tuning .

my .02

anyone need more details or supllies in the Sunapee area drop me an email -

stop thinking of this stuff - weeks of season to go !

Rick Burkehaven Boat Works Lake Sunapee

ps - anyone in need of winterization/shrink/store or prop repairs - special deals for the "fishlakewinni club"

on my 92 2 stroke merc ive never done anything to it in the fall, never been fogged, changed the oil in the spring. the only problem ive encountered is water in the gas, i get about 1.5-2 gallons in there and ive been told that its the new style gas breaking down. takes a few hours both in the driveway, and in the water on the first trip to get it out, maybe a stabilizer would help, picked some up this year to try. what does your owners manual say to do. i never fogged my outboard, used to run it into the winter for diving, and was back out sometime in march. maybe ive been just lucky. with the batteries ive left them in the boat, and in the garage, and it seems i have to change out one of the 2 every year, i like to have atleast one new battery for piece of mind. i use the changed out battery for electric trolling in another boat

Fishless -- maybe your were lucky. Then again, 2-stroke motors are less of a concern for winterizing (especially the fogging part) as there is oil in gas already which helps prevent condensate from collecting and causing pitting / corrosion. I had never winterized any of my small engine toys until last year. But now I swear by it -- and the winterizing procedure I posted is what I use. Most of the work was in researching and vetting the different steps to get comfortable toying with my $8K motor. When I finally got down to it it did not take too long. Familiarity breeds comfort.

P.S. - on the lower unit. There should be NO water in the lower unit (i.e., the transmission) at all. The only way water will get in is if there is a crack, leak in a seal etc. (If you ran up onto rocks and whacked the motor, check it out thoroughly). I've been told that if the lower unit oil appears hazy / milky white, thats a sign that water got in and you've got trouble and if thats the case, you need are real mechanic to fix it. Ususally they recommend servicing the lower unit pretty early -- like after only about 20-40 hours on the motor. After that, you don't really need to do it that often and it can cause more problems than it solves (same as with a car). Just check the lower unit oil to make sure its good and that no water has seeped into the lower unit...

The only water you would have from winterizing is what went through the water pump from the clamp-on attachment. Most if not all of this water will drain out if the motor is put in a nice vertical position. Also, make sure to do the winterizing when the temps are well above freezing and in a day or so any residual water should evaporate.

Eric nailed it. I do everything he said except drain the carb's. Fogging is important. Prevents corrosion.

i can see what your saying about oul in the gas for the 4 strokes, fogging is probably needed more for those.

guess i will have to speak to my guy about fogging again, he works at a honda dealership and he told me they do not fog them. maybe he ment the bigger motors.

ilucas

Did I miss something, what is fogging ????????

Thanks,
John S.

John S - "fogging" was new to me too. Its an oil-in-a-spray-can that you use to put a coating of oil inside the motor (cylinders etc.) to prevent water condensate from contacting the metal directly and causing pits / corrosion.

ILucas - my Honda motor manual recommends fogging and my local Honda ("authorized") mechanic swears by it. I can't see why corrosion would be acceptable in an EFI equipped motor vs. others, but I can see this may be worth investigating for EFI equipped motors. I think if you use a high grade fogging oil and have a good shakedown / burnout cruise the following spring, I don't see how the EFI system would be affected. Conversely, pitting and corrosion in a motor only gets worse after it starts, so I'm big on the prevention thing.

Re: the other detailed post from Rick@BBw, Rick provides some good additional info on where to trace out your motor's intake system to gain access for fogging. Not knowing the particulars of a given motor, I gave the basic approach -- take out the plugs and squirt the fogging oil directly in the cylinders. This was what my local Honda tech recommended for my particular motor (Honda BF90 4-stroke, '04). If you motor is equipped with a more direct means to inject the fogging oil, by all means read up on it and do it.

eric,
i am trying to remember how he put it to me last year. i have tried calling him tonite but he is not in. he may have said that the fogging oil messes up the sensors , or the computorized system or something to that affect, i am not sure. but he did state to me that do not fog them where he works. i have always fogged my 2 stroke motors in the past and i was a little suprised when he told me that they don't fog them

ilucas

ILucas - could very well be a concern with an EFI sensor. However, I think its neither wise nor "standard" to NOT fog a 4-stroke (unless its stored indoors, heated...). I have heard of mechanics using some sort of special fuel mix to "fog" 4 strokes -- actually my local Honda guy does this on some makes with a special mix of fuel / additive he hooks up to the motor's gas line in port, he runs the motor a little while, then disconnects it and lets it burn out. Sounds almost like he's running 2-cycle mix through a 4 stroke, but the additive is some high tech lubricant.

When I get mixed opinions like this (which I did last year!) I tend to try and boil all the conflicting advice down to the basics. Fogging is all about protecting the engine from corrosion. 4 strokes are more vulnerable to corrosion than 2 strokes given there is no lubricating oil in the fuel / intake stream. Why any mechanic / shop would blow this off because of a concern with the EFI / sensors is a red flag to me. I can see using a different technique to fog the enginer, but I can not see leaving the engine otherwise unprotected from corrosion.

If anyone out there has a 4-stroke with an EFI and has no clear direction in their owners manual about fogging / winterizing procedures, I'd do some research before blowing this off. Many modern 4 strokes with EFI systems now have dedicated "service" valves just for the purpose of injecting fogging oil for winterizing. There must be a reason for that right?

...Now thinking out loud, if you remove the plugs and squirt the fogging oil directly into the cylinders you should not directly hit the EFI sensors, right? If you were really worried, you could blow off "my" step of using the starting motor to turn over the engine (to spread the fogging oil) and instead use the emergency starter rope--a few pulls should do. I was just lazy.

Off the subject of outboards, I could not believe how much better my small engine tools worked this year after I winterized them last year. Night and day.

When I researched this last year I was amazed how many conflicting points of view I found from different mechanics on different web threads etc.

Eric,
i will look into it more,ask more ?'s w the mechanic.

ilucas

Hey its been awhile since ive posted last.
I work at the marina that coolwater used to work at..
All the outboards we winterize, two stroke or four, make and model doesen't matter, we run them on a mix of two stroke/fogging oil and stabil(mixed heavy so they smoke) for about 8 to 10 minutes,it coats the carbs and cylinders..
VERY IMPORTANT... If you don't want to change the lube in the lower, atleast pull the plug and check for water. When you pull the bottom plug, if there's any water, it will come out first.
TRUST ME, ATLEAST CHECK THE BOTTOM PLUG.
WATER LEFT IN THE LOWER UNIT WILL FREEZE AND CRACK THE LOWER UNIT CASE. SEEN IT........
Best of luck to the crew on the rest of the season....Pete

Main reason i said that about the lower end, Sometimes you never know and i don't know about anyone else but i sure wouldn't want to pull out in the spring find out there was water in there it froze and cracked the housing Good Point Pete!!!!!!!!! Take Care God Bless and Tight Lines LOL Dave From up North

That seems like the easiest part of the whole deal,why not do it.

John S.

Definitely good idea to check the lower unit. Its just you don't need or even want to replace it more frequently than recommended by the manufacturer. Pete's description of what they do at his marina sounds exactlty like my local Honda tech was doing.

Now we all know how to winterize on our own, right?

It is the easiest part. Unscrew the little bolt, drain it, then screw in the hose and pump it in.

Joe G: do you have a recommended schedule for changing the oil in the lower unit? Also, I thought you needed a special pump / attachment to pump in the new gear oil. After the 20-hr. service, my manual says I don't need to replace (but should still check) the lower unit oil until 200 hours. Whats your experience? -Eric

I have had a 1993 15 HP Johnson for the past few years. I just make sure I change the lower unit oil before there is a frost. I tell the guy at West Marine what type motor and he gave me the lube and pump for it. Very easy to do

Eric,
I appreciate all the info. I've never done it to my 4 stroke and it sounds like we have the identical year and model.

Likewise Joe. I think I'll look into getting what I need to change the oil in the lower unit this year. I was going to check it, but changing it can't hurt.

-Eric