Thanks guys, I found it promising to at least be catching fish as I assume at least that my presentation and speed were about right. The same thing has happened to me on Winni. That is, I'll catch a few bass before a salmon, same technique but different spot. I'll keep at it and give you a call John. Also, thanks for the DR offer but I'm going to pass at this time and do my research. Finally, what is an LDR? From reading the board, I assume it is the 'one that got away' but appreciate the acronym defined for the newbies.