So a tandem streamer off of a Top Gun is legal.

Nice!!!

Once, fly fishing I ran two doppers off of my one fly on a fly rod. Wonder if this was legal. Didn't catch fish with it as it was at the end of the day.

Chappy.

www.chappysguide.com

chappy,
not sure on that one. best bet is to check w/the fish and game to make sure. only know that what i did was a no no.

ilucas

Ilucas glad you called them after you introduced yourself to me and I told you it was illegal.Seems alot of people don't understand the rules.Thanks for stopping by AJS.
How was your pizza?

hi bethany,
to tell you the truth after you told me that what i did was not legal, i kind of lost my appetite, so never did get over to see salmonitis and try the pizza. i will call you about some top guns on saturday. have a good weekend, iam sure you will be busy.

ilucas

Well, I'll be the first to say... that rule does not make sense. I don't see the difference between two flies, two worms or TWO LURES?

This "law" doesn't really affect me, as I can throw out another setup... but what about the person that doesn't own (or cannot afford) a second rod/reel? Or the guy that has only two trolling combos and wants to have four lines when a friend joins him? Not too fair that they get the short end of this stick.

Any ideas as to the reasoning behind this? Anyone?

slipnot
maybe i got his explanation as to how the rule reads wrong, it was kind of confusing, but he specified that 2 lures on one line was not legal even if you were using just one pole. he did not say why it was illegal just sited the rule which to me is not very clear. he also said that this subject has been a hot subject on this site for a couple of years. you would think w/ the state knowing people are confused would write the law so there would be no confusion.

ilucas

Yes, it does make it difficult, not only for us but for the wardens as well. I have asked the same questions to different wardens before and received different answers from all. Seems as if things are written so "loosely" sometimes, that it is left to "interpretation". I guess we just have to hope the warden that visits us, has the same interpretations we do at the time?
I agree... if they were/are aware that a certain "law" is being misunderstood they should clarify it. ANy warden reading this... please take note. Thanks (insert smiley face here...)
That... or change it to benefit us... hahaha

Didn't our great F&G man John Viar write a response to this not that long ago? I could have sworn that he had i just can't seem to find it!!!!!!! I do remember it was pretty lengthy as he is most always usually pretty decent at answering our questions when he has a free minute Take Care God Bless and Tight Lines LOL Dave From up North

SORRY ABOUT THAT JUST THOUGHT I'D TELL YOU BEFORE YOU FOUND OUT THE HARD WAY,I GUESS I OWE YOU A PIZZA HUH?
AS FOR THE RULES GO IT MAY BE CONFUSING BUT I AM BY NO MEANS A FISHERWOMAN AND I UNDERSTOOD THE LAW.AND I BELIEVE THE BOOK WILL BE WRITTEN CLEARER FOR 2007.IM NOT UNDERSTANDING SLIPKNOTS POST ON BEING UNFAIR TO THE FISHERMAN WHO CAN'T AFFORD A SECOND ROD,MAYBE YOU CAN E-MAIL ME.

OK... lets see if I can clarify this...

Lets say a guy has only one trolling combo (maybe because he can't afford another?) Doesn't seem fair that he has to run only ONE lure, when I can run TWO (on seperate rods). I'm just not seeing the difference between me with two rods/two lures... or someone else one rod/two lures? Seems they would still be at a lesser advantage as I'd be running a "wider" spread. Catch rates wouldn't change...?
Perhaps there are no fisherpeople with only one combo? Just throwing it out there. Not seeing the difference between the two, that's all.

OK IF YOU BUY A LICENCE I WOULD HAVE TO THINK YOU PLAN TOO FISH, IF YOU ARE TARGETING SALMON AND TROUT I WOULD ASSUME YOU HAVE A BOAT,IF YOU INVITE FRIENDS I ASSUME YOU HAVE ENOUGH EQUIPMENT IF THEY DON'T HAVE THEIR OWN,[JUST LIKE DINNER YOU DON'T INVITE 6 PEOPLE OVER AND HAVE ONLY 3 STEAKS] I THINK YOU GET THE POINT. THE PROBLEM I HAVE IS IF 2 PEOPLE GO FISHING THEY ARE ALLOWED 4 RODS OK ON THOSE 4 RODS YOU ARE RUNNING 2 LURES PER ROD WE NOW HAVE 8 LURES AKA 8 LINES.I DON'T FISH OFTEN BUT I HAVE TOO ADMIT I OWN MY OWN ROD AND REEL AND THATS BECAUSE I DON'T TRUST MYSELF BORROWING OTHER PEOPLES,MY LUCK I'D GET A BIG ONE AND DROP THE WHOLE SET UP IN LAKE.

Bethany, I think maybe you're taking me wrong? I'm not arguing or trying to cause a ruckus. I just remember days when I was younger and had little money. A trolling combo from your store costs anywhere from $75 to about $100... to a lot of younger people and even some older ones, thats a lot of money. I'm just wondering why a person that couldn't come up with the extra bills to buy that combo should be penalized.
I remember my teen years when I had all I could do to afford to put gas in my 12' aluminum boat, never mind afford a tackle box full of equipment and extra lines. Was I to lessen my chances of catching fish, because of my financial status?

As far as the comment I made earlier about "four lines in the water"... I meant that if the owner of the boat had only two rod/reel combos and invited a (licensed) friend along for a day of fishing... seems it would be nice to allow that guy to add two "cheaters" to his two combos so the other guy had "lines in the water" too. (A total of four lures) I would never expect a "fishing newbie" to buy their own equipment before they knew if they would even enjoy the sport. OR go one step further and change the above to a dad taking his kid/s fishing. I'm all for those kids having lures in the water, whether they have their own poles or not.

Lastly... like I said before... with the way fishing "soaks a person in" there may not be a person out there that doesn't have enough equipment. Look at me for instance... I've bought six full combos, four poles, thousands of yards of line and over a hundred dollars of lures this summer... and that's just from YOUR store, nevermind the others I visit or the saltwater shops. I was just putting the idea out there as food for thought...

Thanks for the replies. I hope I made my point a little more clear?
Take care and save some lures for me... I'm sure I'll be in for more soon.
Craig

OK... one last bit before going to bed... going fishing in a few hours.

You mention inviting people over for dinner and having enough steaks...
Sometimes people just show up... I don't turn people away...(there's no such thing as an unwelcome guest at my house). If its dinner time and I have one steak, I share what I have.
I'd think we'd all do this, for dinner OR anything else for that matter?

Not to drag John V. into this, but just an example of how these laws are confusing to people... here's the post Dave was refering to.

"QUOTE"
Hello All-

This is one of the most common regulation questions from a trolling standpoint, along with the legality of "cheaters" (a loose and separate "free-floating" line affixed to the main line on a downrigger, I guess the name says it all), and seems to come up every year. Per detailed explanation from Law Enforcement (NH Fish and Game Conservation Officers), a "cast" of several flies is legal but they must all be tied in a direct line. As soon as any "branching" occurs, these are your two lines in total as the law allows.

For example, the scenario described with a 3-way swivel is perfectly legal, but these are your two lines. Ditto if you use a cheater. Thus if fishing alone, for instance, you could not legally have a second line out with another branched or cheater rig, because you would have already used your two lines with the first "set up" (2 branches on 2 lines = 4 lines).

From an ethical and practical standpoint, more than two or three flies per "cast" even if legally tied in-line is going to create problems - break offs would result in fish dragging around several flies and feet of line (not conducive to the fish's future survival or at the least feeding and thus chances of becoming a future quality fish), triple or more knot fatigue/breaking points exacerbating the chances of previous, more hooks=more chances of tangles with other trolled lines, netting becomes a heroic feat as hooks not in the fish grab the net, downrigger cable, you name it, and the fish breaks free (common enough with one set of hooks), and a host of other scenarios.

Thank you for ensuring the future quality of New Hampshire's large lake fisheries, and see you on the water this weekend!

John A. Viar
"UNQUOTE"

AND A CONTINUATION...

"QUOTE"
Further clarification: in the scenario I presented, if you are fishing alone and have one line out with a dropper, cheater, or any branch, not only can you not put out another rod with a similar set up, but you could not put out another rod period since you have used your two lines with the first branched rig (putting an additional rod out even without a branch would now make for a total of 3 lines, one over legal limit)- feel free to email me if any further questions...
"UNQUOTE"

Bethany, upon rereading the law-book, I find that you are correct in the reading of the law. It specifically states, under DEFINITIONS - "ANGLING - The taking of fish by line or rod to which is attached a cast of artificial flies, or an artificial bait, or hooks, or other devices for the attachment of bait." (Notice the words artificial bait... not pluralized.)
BUT, it goes on to say..." A person may use up to two LINES." I believe this is where the confusion is coming in? There is no definition of "line" in the lawbook. I, as well as others here, were wrongly assuming that since the lures were on two seperate leaders they were considered different lines.

Luckily this was brought to light prior to one of us being fined for this infraction. Next time you see us teetering on the verge of law-breaking please jump into the conversation and set us straight immediately. Or, did you have money riding on who would be the first to get caught??? LOL Just kidding.

Lots of good conversations, ideas and stories lately... loving the reading material. As always, this site is great!

It's arlarming to mr that in the past month I have had orders for these cheater lines this is the first time in the 9 years since I have been at the store.Now I read the site everyday and ilucas mentions cheater lines and the very next day comes in the store,he took it upon himself to identify who he is,and I told him that if he didn't watch out what he was doing then Fish & Game would be knocking on his door.He thanked me and must have really not known the law necause he checks into it with fish and game and posts that he made a mistake.Thats fine I'm sorry he didn't feel like pizza after.Now back to you I was making a statement that most of the people who have ordered these cheaters know exactly that they are cheaters and bottom line is that when all of a sudden we have fisherpeople using double lines at all times the fishing is going downhill ie; quality,quanity,and it will snowball right down the line,
As for the dinner comment I said invited guest I don't turn people away either but if you invite someone fishing you have to know ahead of time and that person needs to plan to spend money for a fishing licence or maybe people try it out without investing money and fish illegal I don't know for sure.As for kids who don't need a license I would think that whoever is taking them would not worry how many lures are in the water but help the learn the sport.Final comment I'll go back to reading the site and not posting.GOOD FISHING TOO ALL OF YOU

DID YOU HAVE MONEY RIDING ON WHO WOULD BE THE FIRST TO GET CAUGHT YA THATS IT THAT WOULD BE AWESOME FOR BUSINESS WOULDN'T IT LOSS OF LICENSE MEANS NO FISHING WHICH MEANS NO CUSTOMERS.KIDDING OR NOT I DON'T LIKE COMMENTS LIKE THAT...I KNEW IN THIS CASE HE DIDN'T KNOW THE LAW. BUT I DO KNOW PLENTY WHO DO AND DON'T SEEM TO CARE.SO LETS ALL ENJOY THIS SITE AND NOT USE IT TO ARGUE I PUT UP MY E-MAIL ADDRESS TO DISCUSS THIS IN A PRIOR POST, SO WE DIDN'T HAVE TO DO IT HERE.

upon reading officer Viar quote, they way i am understanding his explanation is that as long as u are using 1 pole and add the Cheater to it it is your 2nd line, no more poles for that fisherperson in the water, and that is exactly what i did. i think the term cheating is connected to it because you could actualy have4 lines in the water using only 2 poles without be detected.

"QUOTE"
Further clarification: in the scenario I presented, if you are fishing alone and have one line out with a dropper, cheater, or any branch, not only can you not put out another rod with a similar set up, but you could not put out another rod period since you have used your two lines with the first branched rig (putting an additional rod out even without a branch would now make for a total of 3 lines, one over legal limit)- feel free to email me if any further questions...
"UNQUOTE






so that brings me back to officer Viars quote, does anyone else understand it as 1 pole + cheater = 2 lines w/ no other poles in the water for that fisherperson?

still confused

ilucas

I BELIEVE THE QUESTION WAS ABOUT MULTIPLE FLIES OR A CAST OF FLIES NOT LURES,THAT HE IS BEING QUOTED ON I COULD BE WRONG.I CAN'T GET THAT FAR BACK IN THE COMPUTER TO RE READ IT.BUT I DO KNOW YOU CAN USE 2 FLIES ON 1 LINE AND IT COUNTS AS 2 LINES IF YOU BRANCH THE LINES.

i think i may see it now in slipknots post were he quotes the rule as "an artificial bait" w/ artificial bait being singular and cast of flies and hooks being plural as being attatched to a line or pole

ilucas

Pretty funny stuff here... Ya know I honestly was kidding, sorry you didn't take it that way. Obviously you want people to be licensed or you would sell less gear.
I didn't realize we were arguing? So, again, sorry you think that too. I'm pretty sure I even wrote in one post that I wasn't arguing or trying to cause a ruckus??? Just playing "devils advocate" and seeing where the discussion went.
Next time, I'll just keep my mouth shut and save my discussions for when I'm face to face with you so you can see that I'm kidding. That's the one problem with email or message boards, you can't see a persons expressions and so things may come across different than they are. Had I thought this was anything other than general "discussion" trust me, I would have kept it private email or face to face.
Truly am sorry I came across wrong... my apologies to anyone I may have upset. Craig

Just noticed the other bit you wrote earlier... sorry, hadn't seen it before.
First off, its odd that people are BUYING cheaters? Its only a swivel and piece of mono...???
But mainly, I do agree with you... if people are running these on EVERY rod, that WILL hurt our sport. I definitely agree that we need to keep the two line max per person. I was only talking about these as using them as a "stacker" not doubling your legal quantity of lines.
Oh well... guess I didn't word things quite right.

So, why do you just read and not post? Its good to have you post... You see and hear things on a daily basis at the store that we may never see or think about. Your posting would only add to this site. The perspective you have on things is going to be different than mine and perhaps others... thats a GOOD thing. Discussions like this are a benefit as it gets everyone thinking and seeing things from a different angle.
I hope you reconsider your above statement and continue to comment on what you see here.
Take care... I'll be in the store soon, Craig

Im still lost on the whole quote from John Viar, the way i read it if you use 1 pole with a cheater (IE second lure) that accounts for your two lines in the water??????//// But don't mind me Im just a dumb frenchman from up North LOL Take CAre God Bless and Tight Lines LOL DAve From up North

For the record - my 3 fly droppers were in line - each fly and tippet tied to the hook bend of the previous. So it was legal.

For those of you who are fining YOY smelt balls - try two or 3 small winni smelt streamers in line and slow way down when you are near the bait...