Good post Forry.

I only have only a couple thing to say about lead core, is sink rate realy that important, how much longer does it take to get say 5 colors of 18 pound to get where it's supposed to be Vs 36 pound test. I know the large diameter sinks slower, but how much slower, who's keeping track of the time anyhow ?

Cortland 18# lead is not my favorite at all, the colors are very close in contrast to one another
and I seem to have trouble pulling the casing back, getting the leasder inside, etc and tying to my leader. On the other hand the stuff Cabelas sells is just the opposite on both instances. Seems last Summer, everyone was out of 18# and I had to resort to Cortland, I'll be sure and have plenty this year or use heavier pound test if 18 is not in stock.

John S.

I don't think it has anything to do with time???

It isn't the time it takes to get to depth but it's actual ability to get to a particular depth. The higher pound tests or "thicker stuff" cannot cut the water as well as a thinner diameter, resulting in a shallower maximum depth possible. There is extra drag added to a thicker diameter while in motion and with no increase in weight it will not go as deep. An added component is the the material that forms the jacket is actually a bouyant material, so the more there is the more it floats.

When we refer to "sink rate" we are talking a relationship of DEPTH to LINE LENGTH in the water.

Example:
For 18Lb. Test>> 6ft. of line equals 1ft. depth
For 36Lb. Test>> 8Ft. of line equals 1ft. depth

John,
If you are trying to slide a 6 lb mono into the sleeve of lead core, it is very difficult be cause the 6 lb stuff will bend. Try using some thing like 15 lb mono as a butt end; it’ll go in no problem. With the butt end you change leaders with no problem; it’ll be mono to mono.
Gus

Good post Forry.

I only have only a couple thing to say about lead core, is sink rate realy that important, how much longer does it take to get say 5 colors of 18 pound to get where it's supposed to be Vs 36 pound test. I know the large diameter sinks slower, but how much slower, who's keeping track of the time anyhow ?

Cortland 18# lead is not my favorite at all, the colors are very close in contrast to one another
and I seem to have trouble pulling the casing back, getting the leasder inside, etc and tying to my leader. On the other hand the stuff Cabelas sells is just the opposite on both instances. Seems last Summer, everyone was out of 18# and I had to resort to Cortland, I'll be sure and have plenty this year or use heavier pound test if 18 is not in stock.

John S.

PS: What's the deal with "bravenet", it says it;s been too short a time since my last post and woudn't let me post this. Had to wait til later ?????

Oops, guess it was posted twice ??????

post it again, John. It's one of my favorites. LOL.

Forry, do you think it can really be that, after 5 colors gets you down 25 feet, it takes another 3 colors ( the 6th,7th,and 8th ) to get down an additional 5 feet ( if, as per per Gudebrod, 5 colors = 25 feet and 8 colors = 30 feet) ?? And then, beyond that, only one more color to get another 5 feet ( 9 colors = 35 feet) ? Doesn't figure. Did i read it wrong?

I don't really know to be honest. It maybe be the reason why we sometimes are catching fish on the lead core and not on the riggers, because maybe we are not down as far as we think we are with the leadcore but we set the riggers as if we were deeper. I just found it on the web and thought it might help. I guess you have to make your own mind up. I know I am not going to say thier wrong or right but I will tryit and see if it makes a difference, maybe it will maybe it won't I really don't know. if you try it let me please let me know how it works for you.

Hi Floyd,
Probably the best way to check out the depth that lead line goes to is put a cheap lure on the end of a 4# leader attached to say 10 colors. Go shallower until you get hung up. Now go back to where your hung up (line going straight down) and see what your depth guage reads.
Wouldn't that be the simplist way to really find out?
Cal

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Replying to:

post it again, John. It's one of my favorites. LOL.

Forry, do you think it can really be that, after 5 colors gets you down 25 feet, it takes another 3 colors ( the 6th,7th,and 8th ) to get down an additional 5 feet ( if, as per per Gudebrod, 5 colors = 25 feet and 8 colors = 30 feet) ?? And then, beyond that, only one more color to get another 5 feet ( 9 colors = 35 feet) ? Doesn't figure. Did i read it wrong?

I think the depth the leadcore gets to is more of a range of depths that is affected by water conditions, in particular wind and current. It may be different on any given day or lake. I've got hung up using 5-7 colors in water that was way deeper (50-ft) than I should have been able to achieve. I think what happened was that the combined effects of slow trolling and a water current made the apparent speed along the leadcore and at the lure much slower it would appear to us at the surface. The lead and lure sank deeper...and I caught. Has anyone else had that experience?

I use the 14-to-15 lb "no-lead" leadcore. Figure if I leave some on the bottom at least its not lead. I know a lot of people like the 18-lb but I find the 14/15 lb. easier to work with. I can tie a double uni to join the no-leadcore to my first leader of 10-12 lb mono and the knot is small enough that it (usually) goes through the rod guides pretty easy.

Yes, Cal, but wouldn't it be more accurate with a slight variation. I think i'll put out the eight colors and then drop the rigger ball down 35 feet and see which one hangs up first. Only way to be sure. LOL

I think that forry was right about gudebrod depth chart. I saw the following entry on another message board when i googled gudebrod. The guy posting the message seemed to be skeptical about the numbers.

" Ok here is the info on the back of the package of core that I bought. For some reason I think I bought the wrong stuff. From what I have read on LL and understand it seems these numbers are off.
The chart shows these depths with these line lengths using a 3/4 oz spoon.
Trolling speed slow to medium-

yards out- Depth in feet 30yds-15ft, 50yds-25ft, 80yds-30ft, 90yds-35ft
Are these numbers right?
The Lead core is made by Gudebrod "

Floydo again: Don't you think, also, that the numbers would be different if the thermocline was deeper? They're assuming the density is between 25 and 30 feet, aren't they?

Here's a physics question. Bear in mind as you read it that i have no idea what i'm talking about! Does leadcore bow naturally, AND AT AN INCREASING RATE AS YOU GO DEEPER ( let out more line ) , even without the increase in density of the water DUE TO THERMOCLINE that Gudebrod refers to ? Once a bow begins, does it take less force to increase the bow as you move down the line (back from the boat)? Because, for example, it's easier for the current to raise the line the closer it already has become to horizontal? Or would it be the increasing pressure as you go deeper that increases the upword push? Is there a difference between this pressure and the density of thermocline that gudebrod refers to? I would think so. I mean, they are said to be specifically attributing it to thermocline.

Yes, i do have to much time on my hands. I'm an RFP in winter! And when it gets real bad, we start posting the same message twice just to pass the time. Eh, John? LOL

Floyd I think you're making fishing a little too technical.
In "the old days" we tried different techniques until one worked and we stayed with it.
Today, with all the electronics, I think at times we lose the joy of fishing and make it a technological experience.
I try to enjoy it for what it is, a wonderful environmental experience and not a "let's try and figure every aspect and make a science out of it".
But then again it is winter (or at least it is suppose to be) and you are an RFP, so what else is there to do?
Cal

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Replying to:

Yes, Cal, but wouldn't it be more accurate with a slight variation. I think i'll put out the eight colors and then drop the rigger ball down 35 feet and see which one hangs up first. Only way to be sure. LOL

I think that forry was right about gudebrod depth chart. I saw the following entry on another message board when i googled gudebrod. The guy posting the message seemed to be skeptical about the numbers.

" Ok here is the info on the back of the package of core that I bought. For some reason I think I bought the wrong stuff. From what I have read on LL and understand it seems these numbers are off.
The chart shows these depths with these line lengths using a 3/4 oz spoon.
Trolling speed slow to medium-

yards out- Depth in feet 30yds-15ft, 50yds-25ft, 80yds-30ft, 90yds-35ft
Are these numbers right?
The Lead core is made by Gudebrod "

Floydo again: Don't you think, also, that the numbers would be different if the thermocline was deeper? They're assuming the density is between 25 and 30 feet, aren't they?

Here's a physics question. Bear in mind as you read it that i have no idea what i'm talking about! Does leadcore bow naturally, AND AT AN INCREASING RATE AS YOU GO DEEPER ( let out more line ) , even without the increase in density of the water DUE TO THERMOCLINE that Gudebrod refers to ? Once a bow begins, does it take less force to increase the bow as you move down the line (back from the boat)? Because, for example, it's easier for the current to raise the line the closer it already has become to horizontal? Or would it be the increasing pressure as you go deeper that increases the upword push? Is there a difference between this pressure and the density of thermocline that gudebrod refers to? I would think so. I mean, they are said to be specifically attributing it to thermocline.

Yes, i do have to much time on my hands. I'm an RFP in winter! And when it gets real bad, we start posting the same message twice just to pass the time. Eh, John? LOL

Floydo,
I’m going to let the cat out of the bag, I’m surprised that my good friend didn’t give me a jab.

I’m in the process of putting together an article on lead core line basics, this stems from a discussion that was on the board in August that I said I would do an article; have been working on it off and on and in the last several weeks been putting more effort and time on it. It will be fairly lengthy and cover many questions that we fisher people have. I have done a lot of research on the subject and pulling the stuff together. A fishing buddy who is a retired mechanical engineer has dealt with this kind of stuff in his work; he is going to the west for some snow boarding for the next couple of weeks and when he get back, I’ll shoot him a working copy for his perusal and comments. Some time in February it will be complete.

Yes, there is a lot of conjecture, myths out there that has been taken as the truth; I hope to demystify lead core line trolling and put a new prospective on the subject.

Another way to tell depth is to get one of those small fish finders that you attach to your line then let out the colors you want and reel it in and it should tell you the depth + or - a couple of feet.they go for about $60.00.I think that there is so many things that could raise or lower you depth on any given day waves wind speed so I just keep adjusting the line until I find fish every day is different There are days that I only catch fish on the riggers and then some that I didn't even have to put the riggers down It's all part of the Hunt.That's what I love about fishing.But that's just me There are days that no mater what I do They won't bite But I still love to be on the water than at Home.

Erin

Depth/temp probe

Can't wait to read it!