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Re: Chapter 2 As to why there are no Trophy Salmon in Winn

Here is my two cents. I think that the rainbow are take over as the domiant fish in the lake is the first thing.The other thing is the Salmon are eating more white peach. The white peach don't have as much nutrients as the smelt. That just my two cents.

Re: Chapter 2 As to why there are no Trophy Salmon in Winn

My feelings are that the size of the salmon being stocked are too small. I would like to see bigger fish stocked and not as many. I think that might help. I realize cost/space is an issue but it should never be an excuse. Where there's a will there's a way. Also, I (and many others I know) have no desire to fish the Merrimack for the Atlantic Broodstock. I think it would be great if they put all of these fish, or at least a portion of them, in Winni. Raise license fees $5 to cover the cost and do away with the salmon stamp. Without the ability to keep these through the ice, I think some of those 10-12lb brutes could potentially reach 15lbs. Who wouldn't want the chance to tangle with one of these monsters? You can catch a monster Atlantic in Ma. in a 50 acre lake with a maximum depth of 30 feet, and you can't do the same thing in NH's largest lake? That makes no sense to me. I'm geared towards bigger fish and I think most veteran anglers would rather catch fewer but larger fish, as opposed to high numbers of 2lb fish. I don't know; I might be wrong with this assumption. Either way, I think it's good that anglers and F&G are acknowledging that there's a problem. Hopefully, something can be done about it.

Chris

Re: Chapter 2 As to why there are no Trophy Salmon in Winn

My two cents. Lets make the big Rotary Derby prizes for largest lake trout (non tagged) rather than tagged rainbows to reduce the huge number of hook wounded and/or killed salmon that are caught fishing just under the ice in salmon/rainbow territory. Most of the "out of town rookies" do not follow the rules when they have a salmon on the line.

Re: Chapter 2 As to why there are no Trophy Salmon in Winn

My $.02 This is a slightly educated hypothesis based on my study of evolution, biology and genetics at UNH. I think that the sticking process itself can allow for weaker classes of any organism, let alone salmon. Just by the process of artificially reproducing these fish we bypass nature's method of ensuring that only the strongest of the species will survive. We are populating the lake with salmon that may have never survived on their own had it been up to mother nature instead of the Powder Mill Hatchery. NO I am not saying that we should get rid of stocking because then there would be no salmon fishery. I am saying that if we breed weak fish than we will have weak fish for the following generation. I am sure that F&G do their best to select the best salmon on salmon sunday, but are these very knowledge scientists as good at natural selection as mother nature? I also think that F&G need to walk a fine line between quality and quantity with stocking Winni. If half the number were stocked then yes most certainly we would regulary pull out 5+ pounders; however, at the cost of also catching much fewer salmon overall as well as the odds will go up that a good skunking will come your way. If people aren't catching salmon they will lose interest and if they lose interest they don't buy licenses and gear which will cut the funding and make the fishing worse, which will cut the funding, it is a reciprocal effect. I think that if enough voices are heard proclaiming a desire for size over quanity, then F&G may adjust stocking rates.
I think another contributing factor is that the fish population of the lake itself is changing. We have a white perch poplation that is apparently growing out of control, both in number and in the size of the fish. The yellow perch are disappearing along with the white fish(if they are not already gone, i can't remeber hearing of one being caught in the last 10 years)as well as the crayfish. The crayfish can be explained with the cleaning up of the lake over the years. The laws on septic systems have greatly contributed to water that contains much less human waste than the lake used to. What can I say the crayfish like to eat poop. However, we also have a greater amount of houses on the water with these lovely manicured lawns that probably have more fertilizer in them than I'll ever be able to afford. Not all of the fertilizers are bad but do you want them in your drinking water? So who knows just how those chemicals are affecting the chemistry of the lake water.
I think that we as fishermen are to be blamed as well, (again not all of us). We throw back salmon that we have badly hook wounded and we keep the fat 4 pounder. We should be doing that the other way around, throw back the trophy after a gentle hook release, and keep the skinny racer for breakfast. The debate between single and treble hooks will probably never have a clear answer but we all know that the barbs damage the fish worse than barbless hooks so why aren't we all using barbless hooks or pincinh them down? I know some of you do this and I plan on pinching all my barbs down from now on.
My point in all of this very long rambling post is that I don't think it is just one thing that we can point out fingers at and say that that is why the salmon are small, but rather more than a few contributing factors. We as the fisherman have a responsibility to cull out the weak fish, legally of course, and protect the trophy salmon that we all want to enjoy. We as the fisherman have the responsibility to protect what we love. We may not have the ability to make policy at F&G but they do listen to us and answer our questions with facts beyond all of our speculation. This is witnessed in the countless replies from John Viar to our emails and his volunteering his time to speak at the gatherings every spring.
I guess with all I had to say that is was more like my $.03! Tight Lines everybody

Re: Chapter 2 As to why there are no Trophy Salmon in Winn

Allot of good points Link and others, fact remains all the other Salmon Lakes are doing fine as far as quality. So what is different with Winni ??? More fishing pressure, plain and simple. They are the same fish as most of the eggs were taken from Squam the past few years, not Winni. But yet they don't do well in Winni, whereas they do super in the other Lakes.

Putting in less fish will help, less went in last year due to availability.

I think Derby changes (and/or elimination) should be tried before 2 rods per boat is tried. The two rod thing will lessen the pressure for sure and perhaps help the fishery, but what are all the other ramifications that will come with it.

Fish and Game will try to give us whatever type of fishery we desire and that is exactly what they did with Winni. People wanteed a high catch rate and they got it, unfortunatly you can't have your cake and eat ot too.

Squam and some others are true trophy lakes, many skunks and very slow fishing, but it will give you a nice fish now and then. I don't think the average Winni fisherman would want that fishery for Winni.

Big John

Re: Chapter 2 As to why there are no Trophy Salmon in Winn

Link
My $.02 This is a slightly educated hypothesis based on my study of evolution, biology and genetics at UNH. I think that the sticking process itself can allow for weaker classes of any organism, let alone salmon. Just by the process of artificially reproducing these fish we bypass nature's method of ensuring that only the strongest of the species will survive. We are populating the lake with salmon that may have never survived on their own had it been up to mother nature instead of the Powder Mill Hatchery. NO I am not saying that we should get rid of stocking because then there would be no salmon fishery. I am saying that if we breed weak fish than we will have weak fish for the following generation. I am sure that F&G do their best to select the best salmon on salmon sunday, but are these very knowledge scientists as good at natural selection as mother nature? I also think that F&G need to walk a fine line between quality and quantity with stocking Winni. If half the number were stocked then yes most certainly we would regulary pull out 5+ pounders; however, at the cost of also catching much fewer salmon overall as well as the odds will go up that a good skunking will come your way. If people aren't catching salmon they will lose interest and if they lose interest they don't buy licenses and gear which will cut the funding and make the fishing worse, which will cut the funding, it is a reciprocal effect. I think that if enough voices are heard proclaiming a desire for size over quanity, then F&G may adjust stocking rates.
I think another contributing factor is that the fish population of the lake itself is changing. We have a white perch poplation that is apparently growing out of control, both in number and in the size of the fish. The yellow perch are disappearing along with the white fish(if they are not already gone, i can't remeber hearing of one being caught in the last 10 years)as well as the crayfish. The crayfish can be explained with the cleaning up of the lake over the years. The laws on septic systems have greatly contributed to water that contains much less human waste than the lake used to. What can I say the crayfish like to eat poop. However, we also have a greater amount of houses on the water with these lovely manicured lawns that probably have more fertilizer in them than I'll ever be able to afford. Not all of the fertilizers are bad but do you want them in your drinking water? So who knows just how those chemicals are affecting the chemistry of the lake water.
I think that we as fishermen are to be blamed as well, (again not all of us). We throw back salmon that we have badly hook wounded and we keep the fat 4 pounder. We should be doing that the other way around, throw back the trophy after a gentle hook release, and keep the skinny racer for breakfast. The debate between single and treble hooks will probably never have a clear answer but we all know that the barbs damage the fish worse than barbless hooks so why aren't we all using barbless hooks or pincinh them down? I know some of you do this and I plan on pinching all my barbs down from now on.
My point in all of this very long rambling post is that I don't think it is just one thing that we can point out fingers at and say that that is why the salmon are small, but rather more than a few contributing factors. We as the fisherman have a responsibility to cull out the weak fish, legally of course, and protect the trophy salmon that we all want to enjoy. We as the fisherman have the responsibility to protect what we love. We may not have the ability to make policy at F&G but they do listen to us and answer our questions with facts beyond all of our speculation. This is witnessed in the countless replies from John Viar to our emails and his volunteering his time to speak at the gatherings every spring.
I guess with all I had to say that is was more like my $.03! Tight Lines everybody



With the above science in laymens terms;
"PUT AND TAKE FISHING"

Re: Chapter 2 As to why there are no Trophy Salmon in Winn

my 2 cents on this...

by limiting boats to 2 rods, i think less overall licenses will be sold. Our camp brings in about 12-14 guys for the May Derby, 10 of those guys are once a year visitors, no need for them to ever buy a license under that change. I have to think hundreds of licenses (revenue) are sold just because of that Derby. Also, how many groups or 3-4 guys on a boat, especially derby weekend? thats the majority of what you see... so now instead of 600 boats with an avg of 4 guys, you will have 1200 boats with 2 guys (only due to neededing a witness, the rest of the year I will just fish alone as you all will). so lets double the boat traffic and fuel pollution in order to up the salmon ante... brilliant plan for whom ever thought of it!

My first thoughts on slowing down the catch/injury rate. 1. End the season Aug 30th... We all know Sept fishing is like sticking your hand in the goldfish tank at petco.... anyone can come up with 10 fish in 2 hours. and 2. have a few scattered no fishing saturdays... that will lesson the total amount caught each season as well.

Re: Chapter 2 As to why there are no Trophy Salmon in Winn

Everyone blames the ice fisherman!! If we are killing and wounding all these salmon why not let us keep them? Nothing like seeing 400 fisherman April 1st crammed into a tiny area catching all these stupid salmon one after another!!

Re: Chapter 2 As to why there are no Trophy Salmon in Winn

Sculpin
my 2 cents on this...

by limiting boats to 2 rods, i think less overall licenses will be sold. Our camp brings in about 12-14 guys for the May Derby, 10 of those guys are once a year visitors, no need for them to ever buy a license under that change. I have to think hundreds of licenses (revenue) are sold just because of that Derby. Also, how many groups or 3-4 guys on a boat, especially derby weekend? thats the majority of what you see... so now instead of 600 boats with an avg of 4 guys, you will have 1200 boats with 2 guys (only due to neededing a witness, the rest of the year I will just fish alone as you all will). so lets double the boat traffic and fuel pollution in order to up the salmon ante... brilliant plan for whom ever thought of it!

My first thoughts on slowing down the catch/injury rate. 1. End the season Aug 30th... We all know Sept fishing is like sticking your hand in the goldfish tank at petco.... anyone can come up with 10 fish in 2 hours. and 2. have a few scattered no fishing saturdays... that will lesson the total amount caught each season as well.


Try fishing Squam in September, extrememly lucky to get one a day, myself I have found Winni to slow down quite a bit after Labor Day, mid September for me is slow on Winni....

But I really don't believe we take enough fish out of the Lakes anyhow.

Big John

Re: Chapter 2 As to why there are no Trophy Salmon in Winn

I agree with john, September can be slow, but there are no nicer days in the year than in September.
Also, I think many fisherman that are still working may only have Saturdays to fish (not my problem) Would not recommend any no fishing days.
Louis