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Re: New kind of low

Hi Lisa,

I work with children who have personal difficulties within their family. A lot of times it is about who said what about who, children being used as pawns.
The most important thing these children need is someone to listen and hear what they say. While ever you are talking and they know they can come to you with any problem, then they wont feel so alone.
Children like to know that they arent alone in their feelings, that it isnt abnormal to go through these things and that we survive and that lots of children are experiencing the same feelings. I explain that its perfectly normal to feel sad somedays as it is normal to feel happy at other times.

I tell my own child as well as those I support that grown ups can behave badly too, that grown ups are not always right and that at times we can be a bit mean. Liken it to a friend at school that they fall out with (or if they have seen others acting mean, then ok, on and on, some people are just like that).

I often hand out 'feelings' journal. These are private for children and can be shared only if they want to. You could maybe give them a journal to write in things they dont want to say to you. They may agree to let you read them when they are not looking or may ask you to not look at all, but the action of getting feelings out and onto paper is always helpful, for children as much as adults.
Another effective method I often use between warring parents is letter writing. The child writes a letter to each parent explaining how stuff they say about the other parent makes them feel. This can be powerful for parents to read, depending on the individual of course, some parents just never realised how their child actually felt.

I know it is tempting to have a go at the person, but children dont want to hear it, simple as that. My way around it is to seperate the behaviour from the person, I know you love dad very much but you dont like it when dad behaves likes this...Its seperating the negative action from the person whom they love. It helps them to see that its perfectly ok to love the person but recognise there are things that person does that are not so great and not acceptable.

Lisa you have to not take it personally, your children obviously love you very very much. Its very sad that they are being manipulated in this way. The truth is that we cant always save them from those that want to damage but what we can do is concentrate on damage limitation. We can help to empower our children by letting them know that what they feel and think is very important to us. Children figure things out very quickly.

I stopped protecting my ex from his own behaviour regarding our son, I didnt outline it but when my son asks me something I always ask him back 'what do you think?' hes usually spot on the nose, without me saying anything. He is 8. It hurts him less because he knows its right and good to love dad but sometimes dad doesnt do the right things. It doesnt change his love though.

Talking and listening to children are the best things we can do. As adults we use our friends, family or internet to vent! We forget that just as it helps us to talk about it, it is the same for them.
A lot of children dont want to talk to either mum or dad because they dont want to upset the two people they love and it can become difficult if they think they are having to pick sides. This is where a trusted friend or family member might help, or using the journal.

My boy is very good at knowing when and when not to say things. My ex had asked about my partner and asked my son if he like d him, my son said no he didnt. The truth is that he does like him very much. But my son knew that dad was in a state and there was no way he could say he liked my partner. I told him he was right to say this at that time.
I then asked my son if hed prefer to not go to dads if dad was going to ask questions, he said yes hed rather not go, I then asked if he would like me to discuss this with dad. He said 'well im not telling him' lols. But he was happy for me to bring the subject up. I told my ex that his son didnt want to stay if he was going to have to answer questions about me.
I told my son that if dad asks about me then you have to say 'dad, mum says i cant tell you anything and if you want to know then you have to ask her'. His dad asked if we were moving and my son told him straight to ask me.
Children are resilient and have a better understanding than we give them credit for.

Not talking to them honestly leaves them to fill in the blanks that can often be much worse than the reality. Children understand bad behaviour, not all children realise that 'grown ups' can behave badly. hearing it from an adult is sometimes really helpful.
They understand 'name calling' and the desired effect it has. Doesnt make it true or right.
You are already giving them lots of love and attention. Lisa I cant see you going wrong. Hey if Im upset I tell my son, 'well today im feeling sad but ill be better later', even if i have a cry, ill be honest and say i felt sad had a cry and feel much better for it, it means he doesnt have to hide his tears if hes down. We all understand feelings, children and adults.Talking about them is always going to help.

Hope you are feeling better soon.

Re: New kind of low

Thank You Abbey!
I do encourage my son to love his father. It kills me sometimes to do it but I bite my cheek and do it anyhow. I could turn my kids against their father in 10 minutes flat...but I refuse to hurt them that way. I don't hide my ex's actions any more. My kids do usually see the truth.
I had a talk with him tonight after school. I told him that while he did break my heart last night, I still loved him. I have always wanted my kids to express emotions. It is important. I then told him that I deserved a reason for his sudden decision. He didn't have one. He just said that he wanted to live with his dad from the start. Which I know is a lie because we talked about it. So I told him that he needed to sit and think about it for a while, write it down or just tell me . I myself journal have since high school I have gotten him journals before but he don't use them. I told him to get it out and start writing. After a while he came up and just hugged me. No words just a giant hug After a while he said "I want to live with you Mommy" I let it go at that. I will suggest the letter to each of us. Maybe he will be able to write things to his Dad that he can't say. I wouyld still love to know what my ex said to make my child tell me he want to leave me. He ( my son) even told me that he is more comfortable with me than he is with his Dad. He can't talk to him the way he talks to me. He just told me this today.
I hope that my baby will be okay, I will do everything I can to help him through this. I just want so bad to protect him from life. I know I can't but I would love to

Re: New kind of low

hey Lisa,
if we protect our children from all the harsh realities of life we are restricting their coping abilities. Children do need to face some challenges and understand that life is not always fair. Resilience comes from facing challenges whilst being supported.
I know its hard and as mothers we have the whole guilt to deal with. I have met adults who resent the fact that their childhoods were so 'perfect' and protected they had no idea how to cope with lifes tribulations.
The challenges can be made easier by us diluting and supporting. It bulids up an armour they can call up when needed later in life, resilience.
You dont need to bad mouth dad but neither do you need to ignore bad behaviour and just keep quiet. How will they know its not acceptable if its not voiced?
It might help if dad is receptive to a letter. Children can sometimes get through where others cant, not always but anything is worth a shot.
Ground rules for THEIR visitation. Hope it goes well.

Re: New kind of low

I have tried to talk to my ex about our son, he don't listen to a word I say. I have made phone calls to him to try and let him know just how upset his son is and he just starts agruing with me so the conversation ends.
I don't shelter my kids, they have already faced a lot in their little lives. And you are right although it is hard it is good for them.I just wish that I could take all their hurt, living in my own little dream world there.
I talked to him about writing each of us a letter telling us how he feels. I hope he will, I have scheduled him to talk with someone tomorrow

Re: New kind of low

Thats great Lisa, hope he goes for it. He might want to do it a later date so its a good idea to let him know he can do it whenever he feels like it.

Sometimes when we try telling our ex what the problem is they use that information against us, often its counterproductive. I know where you are coming from with that one! All you can aim for is giving your children a voice they can use to ask for their needs to be taken into account. Perhaps their voices will be heard where yours is met with resistence?

Re: New kind of low

Well My son told me yesterday that Dad talked to him about his not being able to spend time with him...WHAT A JOKE!!! My ex told him that he CAN"T spend time with him because he only has him a few days and that if he lived with him he could spend more time with him one on one.
He is such a jerk, what about making the best of the time he has?

Re: New kind of low

Did you switch it round for your son so he could see that if he lived with his dad he would have the same problem only with you? Im pretty certain your children wouldnt be able to cope being seperated from you.
Children quickly adjust to new set ups. dad is trying to undermine everything and cause waves, dangling carrots.
My son wanted to live with dad at one point, because they had so much fun. at one point I got so fed up I said 'ok'. I called both of their bluffs. My ex who had been going on and on and on about how his son should live with him almost had heart attack when I rang and said. Quite effective really, its one issue i dont have to deal with anymore. And of course the more time my son spent with dad the less attractive it all became.
What do you think your ex would do if you called him on it and said maybe equal parenting might be a good idea? If hes simply trying to freak you out the actual intention might not exist. Do you think he would really go for it or does he expect you to fight him tooth and nail but uses it as a stick to beat you with via your children.....

Re: New kind of low

Considering he has never been alone with our children for more than an hour...I think he would tell me that he would take them, go through all the motions, bail, then turn it into something that is my fault
He is playing the good guy with my oldest, my youngest and him have NEVER had a relationship. He doesn't like him because he isn't into sports. Crazy but that is how he is. When he talks about the boys its always "John this, John that and never anything about Joe" I think he really thought that our oldest would just turn on me.
But as my Mommy told me yesterday when I just wanted to give up the fight. " Your all that little boys has that is stable, don't ever give up just because 'ex' is being a jerk. he will need you and you have to be there stronger than ever" I love my Mommy she always know what to say to me.