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Re: Divorcing a narcissist, and somehow still confused

Dear Dannielle,

If you have access to YouTube, please look into Dr. Ramani's videos of how to deal with a narcissist, and how to help yourself heal from this damage. She's a west coast psychotherapist with specialization in dealing with narcissists, and those damaged by narcissistic abuse. Her videos have helped me soooo very much to understand what the hell went wrong with my failing marriage. Also, look into the phenomenon of "trauma bonding". These issues go waay back into our childhoods. Be prepared to dig deep, and revisit old haunting hurts in order to heal them, and move forward to NOT repeat the same mistakes that have cost you so much.
I never ever heard of the term "covert narcissist" before Dr. Ramani's vid's and once I did, it all clicked. I wasn't the cause!! I tried EVERYTHING to make this marriage work!! I almost lost myself in the process. Dear One, you MUST let go of this relationship, or you too will lose your precious self. With a narcissist, it's all about Validation for them, and Control and Power over you. You aren't a "person" to them, you are an appliance, like a blender or washing machine, etc. You are to be used as a source of narcissistic supply, and no amount of love from you will change this person. Ever.
I know something of how you feel. -Bethany

Re: Divorcing a narcissist, and somehow still confused

Oh my god, I love Dr Ramani! I’ve been watching her videos for a while now and he’s heard me watch them, and even sent them to him. Stupidly before I realized that I’m only helping him become a better narcissist. The logical rational side of me is fully aware that a healthy person would be happy to cut off ties with someone like him. But the emotional side of me, the person who loved him deeply, is struggling with the pain and grief of what I thought we would have. I know it’s a good thing in the long run that I need to heal so that way my next relationship is too healthy people working together. But I’m just so sad that he couldn’t do it. Ironically, he’s gone gray rock and he’s being very professional and his replies to me, which is now confusing me and making me question find the narcissist because somehow these replies are actually really bothersome to me. And it scares me a little bit because I Think he may be up to something, like plotting something. He’s so vindictive, I just don’t know which angle he’ll come from. I never realized how abusive the relationship with a narcissist is. I feel so stupid thinking that he’s a kind of person who will absolutely harm me and yet I’m sad to lose him. I feel like one of those girls who gets beat up and is “like but I love him”. Somehow that’s exactly how I feel.

Is this like a normal part of divorce that everyone feels no matter what?

Re: Divorcing a narcissist, and somehow still confused

Danielle:

As someone who is divorcing after 25 years of marriage (we've been separated for a year), my first piece of advice is to stop beating yourself up and stop "owning" problems that really are your spouse's. You should focus on your well-being and start planning for the next chapter without him. Research the divorce laws in your state. Start gathering all necessary documents. Pull old bank records that confirm the contributions you made to his business-both financially and in-kind. If you have joint accounts, start moving money into a separate account. Start making copies of his retirement/pension account statements, so that you know the full range of marital assets you are dealing with. If you can afford it, get an attorney who will work on retainer. Have them explore the possibility of receiving spousal support. If you can't, many states have paralegal services that can't provide legal advice or represent you in court but will process the necessary documents for reasonable fees.

My second piece of advice is that it is okay to look back in the past-just don't stay there too long. You sound like you a bit stuck on what has happened in the past and still thinking your marriage is salvageable. Doesn't seem so.

Finally, you need to stop making excuses for cheating and lying behavior. I don't know if I would characterize my soon-to-be ex-husband as "narcissistic", but I can tell you that people who are in anyway unfaithful, cheat, lie, are secretive or otherwise have romantic, emotional and intimate relationships with women outside their marriage are "cheating" their spouse/partner from having a fully, loving relationship and can never be fully emotionally committed to you. So long as someone else is receiving their attention, time, romantic feelings, expressions of affection and/or sexual gratification-you can never have the fully committed marriage/relationship you deserve. My husband is generally a nice, kind, easy-going and smart person. So, it is still hard to accept that he never completely loved me or he would have stopped his "unfaithful" behavior after the first time I found out. He was willing to hurt me so that he could meet his own needs and feel affirmed (Maybe he is a narcissist: smiley: He stopped being invested in my happiness and wellbeing-which is a foundational requirement for both parties.

But I also know that this is his shortcoming, not something that I did or didn't do. He did the same thing with his prior girlfriends. For whatever reason, infidelity is in his nature. There are many things I have done that I'm not proud of, but cheating or being unfaithful is not one of them. So, stop making excuses for your ex. I don't know why our culture is so forgiving and accepting of infidelity. It is despicable and destructive behavior, and the fault lies entirely with the cheater! I hate when I hear people or therapist say that an affair or cheating is only a "symptom" of a bad relationship. This is the ultimate in victim-bashing. The fault lies with the person doing the cheating (and in your case, also being emotionally abusive).

I knew that my spouse lied about his on-going "contact" with 3 different "ex-girlfriends" in the course of our 1 1/2 years of dating before moved in together, and I still stayed with him. When there are no consequences and a man learns that he can talk his way out of unfaithful behavior, there is no real incentive to change. We become complicit in unfaithful behavior, when we stay with cheaters. I know they exist, but I have never met a man (or woman) who truly is a "one-time" cheater.

What I have learned over these 25 years, is that it was my husband's nature to be emotionally, romantically, affectionally connected with multiple women at the same time. I just recently learned that he cheated with yet other women during our engagement- which means he took marriage vows 6 months later that he knew he had no intention of keeping. In short, he is a man who should have not married. He is emotionally incapable of being committed to one woman.

So, we quickly fell into a very workable roommate/friendship/social marriage. Since we both had active and enjoyable careers, it was easy to pretend the marriage was working. But as we approached retirement age, I knew I wanted a real marriage. It is tremendously lonely to stay in a relationship where you are not getting your complete needs met. I know I deserve to have a man's complete romantic attention and affection and for him to be as invested in my happiness and well-being as I would be for him. I didn't have that with my husband. I would rather live alone (I like my own company), than to be lonely inside a marriage.

You deserve the same. Yes, you will feel sad/depressed/mad for quite a while and when you think you have turned the corner, you'll fall off the wagon and start remembering the "good times" and fanaticizing about reconciling. Focus on your own well-being. No matter what people say, it is always hard and embarrassing when others learn you are divorcing. I actually reached out to old childhood/high school friends who had less of a relationship with my spouse and who have known me all my life. It has been a tremendous help to be able to vent and process my divorce with friends who have either been there themselves or at least, won't judge me. I'm also doing new things (getting fluent in Spanish and taking golfing lessons) and I have a therapist I can check in with from time-to-time. I didn't mean to get on a soap box, but I sense from your post that you are still vacillating. Based on what you described, he doesn't deserve you and more importantly, he is a risk to your own well-being. It will be a hard road, but you'll feel so much better when you come out stronger on the other side. Best of luck to you!

Re: Divorcing a narcissist, and somehow still confused

Thank you, you’re right. You sound like you have a lot of wisdom and you’ve gone through some things and came out stronger and with a positive attitude about it.

I do go back-and-forth a lot, I’m worried about becoming bitter that I “could’ve had this life if I would have just stuck it out”. But I know in reality that no matter what he would discard me at some point in time in a very cruel manner and I would likely still be left high and dry.

You’re right, cheating is never OK and it’s so awful that people get to do it and the person who was cheated on has to deal with emotional pain from all of it. It should be illegal. I’m so sorry that you went through that. And you’re right, telling the victim that they played a role in that is ridiculous. Yes, sometimes cheating might be a symptom, but definitely not if it’s an ongoing pattern. And even if it is a symptom, it’s one persons actions, not a joint decision. It’s the lying that really adds to the pain. Thinking you’re part of a team but there are other people out there that have secrets with your spouse that you don’t know about, it’s embarrassing and painful. it’s such an insult to your intelligence when they won’t come clean, it’s completely insult to injury.

I’m trying to stay strong. We’ve had only a few text exchanges over the past week, the back-and-forth with him taking credit for previously being accountable for this cheating like behavior and then going back on it and saying he’s never even thought of cheating on me. How can you try to start an affair without having ever even had the thought?

It’s crazy making. I told him how I felt and asked him just to be the bigger person and not respond to me. And shockingly, to his credit, he’s gone gray rock and he’s just giving me businesslike responses. Which is good, it makes it easier to sit in my feelings and process what I’m feeling and actually miss him in a grieving kind of a way. but it hurts, and I’m so scared that I won’t be able to be strong. I have begun telling everyone I know that we’re getting a divorce, and being more honest about the reason why. I think this will help me to have shame if I were to go back, which is sadly a big motivator for me (shame).

Neither one of us has filed, at least I haven’t. But I think it’s some thing I have to do this week so it’s more real and gets me out of limbo. I just know it’s going to get really ugly and I’m scared of what that looks like.

Thank you for the good advice, everything you said is totally right and I hope to find the strength that you have right now.

Re: Divorcing a narcissist, and somehow still confused

Thank you, I needed to hear that.