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Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Hmmm, are they really the state's top Catholic? 2-1 loss.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Anon
Hmmm, are they really the state's top Catholic? 2-1 loss.


Just shows you how weak Mass HS hockey is when the state's best falls to a weak prep team. Dexter beat Delbarton 6-1 and Dexter isn't strong this year.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

It's all weak. And then the locals get all up in arms when a kid bails for the USHL.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

anon
It's all weak. And then the locals get all up in arms when a kid bails for the USHL.


You are so right.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Wouldn't be this way if all the disillusioned parents would stay put and play HS hockey. If your kid can go to USHL, fine, but no one is! NE Stars, Junior Rangers and the other joke "Junior" programs are just money grabs. Stay put, save your money, and have fun in high school. Go play this non-sense after you graduate.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

While not addressing the team(s) mentioned, these high school coaches have to get better at finding kids opportunities after high school (In all fairness I'd guess MC has been better than average at it). Junior team coaches spend hours each week trying to find college opportunities for their kids. Find me more than 2-3 high school coaches that spend ANY time trying to find junior or college teams for their players, I'd be amazed.

And then they all bellyache when kids move on to junior teams. Spare me coaches.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

USHL?
Wouldn't be this way if all the disillusioned parents would stay put and play HS hockey. If your kid can go to USHL, fine, but no one is! NE Stars, Junior Rangers and the other joke "Junior" programs are just money grabs. Stay put, save your money, and have fun in high school. Go play this non-sense after you graduate.


If kid goes to USHL does he graduate HS?

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Yes, he graduates from a high school usually in the town where his team is located. Is it a big deal? Not really because most of these kids have college deals in place and the ones that might worry would be the ones that don't have a college deal and they can't produce very good standardized test scores. But hey, Lake Superior State needs players too.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

USHL not the problem - if a kid is good enough to play there let him go. It's the other garbage programs grabbing HS kids that are the problem as mentioned in the post. Stay in HS, play with your buddies - then play a yr or two of jr's if you want to make a run at it. Could be wrong but dont think there are lots of HS kids running to USHL - and again if they are good enough to play there go get'em.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

I agree somewhat. I've seen it go various ways at the high school level. One case the kids should have stayed; another case the kid should have gone and another the kid stayed and it made no difference.

A couple kids who are very good players get sold a bill of goods from a nearby prep school coach and they make the jump. They sign-up and do a repeat year. The coach uses them to win plenty of games and to support his star player and then really doesn't do anything for them to get to the next level. The kids' junior team contacts are few, they've already fallen for their repeat year for the prep coach so the clock is ticking and once they graduate from the prep school they are scrambling trying to find a D-3 school that will take them. Would it have been different had they stayed at their local high school and found a junior team to take then at 18 years old? I can't imagine it would have been (not to mention the $75-$80k they blew supporting the team's star player).

Another kid shows up as a highly touted player his freshman year, being looked at seriously at the national level having played on top peewee & bantam teams but decides to stay at the local high school. Plays all four years but never improves. Develops bad habits, survives bad coaching, systems coaches employ are not in touch with today's game, plays with little discipline and plays well enough but never develops into a dominate player even at the high school level...many of us scouting the kid come to the conclusion the kid is worse as a senior than he was as a freshmen. He graduates at 18 and has limited options and goes off to college.

Another kid is a classic 'late bloomer' who stays with the high school, does everything the coaches ask of him, plays in the off season for some good coaches and good programs and finally gets ice time as a junior.
The kid grows into his frame and becomes one of the better local players and helps his high school win a lot of games. High school coaches have no idea and do nothing to help the kid after high school - in fact one of his coaches told me "stay away from my players!" The kid graduates at 18 and three or four of the better local junior teams are calling including a couple USHL teams and a couple Canadian junior teams based upon his play and his club team contacts. Kid isn't interested and decides to move onto college to study with no real interest in playing more hockey.

What I've learned is every kid is different and every case is different. Some should stay and some should go.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Scout
I agree somewhat. I've seen it go various ways at the high school level. One case the kids should have stayed; another case the kid should have gone and another the kid stayed and it made no difference.

A couple kids who are very good players get sold a bill of goods from a nearby prep school coach and they make the jump. They sign-up and do a repeat year. The coach uses them to win plenty of games and to support his star player and then really doesn't do anything for them to get to the next level. The kids' junior team contacts are few, they've already fallen for their repeat year for the prep coach so the clock is ticking and once they graduate from the prep school they are scrambling trying to find a D-3 school that will take them. Would it have been different had they stayed at their local high school and found a junior team to take then at 18 years old? I can't imagine it would have been (not to mention the $75-$80k they blew supporting the team's star player).

Another kid shows up as a highly touted player his freshman year, being looked at seriously at the national level having played on top peewee & bantam teams but decides to stay at the local high school. Plays all four years but never improves. Develops bad habits, survives bad coaching, systems coaches employ are not in touch with today's game, plays with little discipline and plays well enough but never develops into a dominate player even at the high school level...many of us scouting the kid come to the conclusion the kid is worse as a senior than he was as a freshmen. He graduates at 18 and has limited options and goes off to college.

Another kid is a classic 'late bloomer' who stays with the high school, does everything the coaches ask of him, plays in the off season for some good coaches and good programs and finally gets ice time as a junior.
The kid grows into his frame and becomes one of the better local players and helps his high school win a lot of games. High school coaches have no idea and do nothing to help the kid after high school - in fact one of his coaches told me "stay away from my players!" The kid graduates at 18 and three or four of the better local junior teams are calling including a couple USHL teams and a couple Canadian junior teams based upon his play and his club team contacts. Kid isn't interested and decides to move onto college to study with no real interest in playing more hockey.

What I've learned is every kid is different and every case is different. Some should stay and some should go.


Great insight!

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Scout
in fact one of his coaches told me "stay away from my players!"
assuming you are a college scout or a post graduate junior coach or the player is a senior... as a HS (although) girls coach, i find this attitude amazing. i would be more upset if the scout did not approach me, just so i have future contact. i see scouts as a selling point to my team. ALL the players seem to have more of a jump when a scout is 'in the house'. we have had two already this year and roughly 6 or so every year. it makes the coaching staff look better if we can say --- alumni players are skating with X, Y and Z. we have actually held a bus (and did so this week) while a player chatted with a scout after a game. its only 5 or so minutes but the parents and player appreciate it. i would have a scout(s) at every game and practice. its a win win win.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

I was watching a high school game a couple years ago at Reading and a couple guys who based on what they were wearing and the notes they were taking I assumed were junior team coaches were watching the game. The visiting team had an assistant coach who kept yelling at these guys. I couldn't figure it out but eventually I could make it out and he was yelling - "get the hell out of here!" and stuff like that to these two guys. I found it really disheartening.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

anon
USHL not the problem - if a kid is good enough to play there let him go. It's the other garbage programs grabbing HS kids that are the problem as mentioned in the post. Stay in HS, play with your buddies - then play a yr or two of jr's if you want to make a run at it. Could be wrong but dont think there are lots of HS kids running to USHL - and again if they are good enough to play there go get'em.


There's not many HS kids from Massschusetts running to the USHL because Massachusetts hockey doesn't produce that many high level players. Its as simple as that. All our myriad youth, high school, prep, split season, summer tournament....hockey has done is water down the talent and coaching so much that kids that could have been players get lost in the sh_t. The Miracle team was half from Massachusetts. This year's world juniors team has 3. Go watch a Prep game, which is supposed to be the top hockey in this area. Even between the "best" teams the hockey is terrible (If there's 3 D-men in all of Massachusetts prep that can make consistent breakout passes on the tape I'd be amazed) All the discussion about prep vs HS is a joke. They both suck compared to U16 in the Tier 1 Elite Hockey League (excluding the BA, who also suck).

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

anon
anon
USHL not the problem - if a kid is good enough to play there let him go. It's the other garbage programs grabbing HS kids that are the problem as mentioned in the post. Stay in HS, play with your buddies - then play a yr or two of jr's if you want to make a run at it. Could be wrong but dont think there are lots of HS kids running to USHL - and again if they are good enough to play there go get'em.


There's not many HS kids from Massschusetts running to the USHL because Massachusetts hockey doesn't produce that many high level players. Its as simple as that. All our myriad youth, high school, prep, split season, summer tournament....hockey has done is water down the talent and coaching so much that kids that could have been players get lost in the sh_t. The Miracle team was half from Massachusetts. This year's world juniors team has 3. Go watch a Prep game, which is supposed to be the top hockey in this area. Even between the "best" teams the hockey is terrible (If there's 3 D-men in all of Massachusetts prep that can make consistent breakout passes on the tape I'd be amazed) All the discussion about prep vs HS is a joke. They both suck compared to U16 in the Tier 1 Elite Hockey League (excluding the BA, who also suck).


That is actually a misconception. '80 Olympic team only had 4 kids from Massachusetts but they were pretty impactful.

The 1996 Canada Cup team more the sweet spot of Mass hockey development with about 10 players with Massachusetts or New England roots.

I agree with all the other points though. Talent and coaching is watered down. Also greed has had a really negative affect with club team owners more concerned with their organization or league's brand that creating a development model that maximizes competition.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Is the tier 1 elite hockey league invite only or can a player try out? Just curious...

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

anon
Is the tier 1 elite hockey league invite only or can a player try out? Just curious...


The only T1EHL team in this area is Boston Advantage and they do have tryouts but my guess is most players are prepicked so your kid has to really standout to have a chance. Not sure about other teams in league but they're not really convenient for us here anyhow...

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Anon
anon
Is the tier 1 elite hockey league invite only or can a player try out? Just curious...


The only T1EHL team in this area is Boston Advantage and they do have tryouts but my guess is most players are prepicked so your kid has to really standout to have a chance. Not sure about other teams in league but they're not really convenient for us here anyhow...


Check out Boch Militia, they regularly beat BA.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Anon
Anon
anon
Is the tier 1 elite hockey league invite only or can a player try out? Just curious...


The only T1EHL team in this area is Boston Advantage and they do have tryouts but my guess is most players are prepicked so your kid has to really standout to have a chance. Not sure about other teams in league but they're not really convenient for us here anyhow...


Check out Boch Militia, they regularly beat BA.
Boch Militia is a half season team made up of prep players. But, thanks, Boch Militia dad. Short memory, MHR shows you as 6-2 losers to BA.

Don't forget, the NTDP is "USHL." The truly elite players from NE play here until they're 16, then they leave.

TJW is also in the USHL after not making the NTDP.

One of BA's U16 players from last year made the jump to the USHL this year, playing out there as a 16 year old. Looks like he's suiting up but not sure how much TOI he's getting. Very little production according to Elite Prospects data.

What has evolved in the past 5 - 10 years is a "pecking order" for local hockey talent.

1. NTDP
2. USHL
3. Top Prep
4. Decent Prep
5. Catholics
T6. Low Prep
T6. Public

Not sure where to put T1EHL in there. Only two local teams, and not all the players are local. But, we don't seem to export talent to the other T1EHL teams, either. Least not that I'm aware.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Anon
Anon
Anon
anon
Is the tier 1 elite hockey league invite only or can a player try out? Just curious...


The only T1EHL team in this area is Boston Advantage and they do have tryouts but my guess is most players are prepicked so your kid has to really standout to have a chance. Not sure about other teams in league but they're not really convenient for us here anyhow...


Check out Boch Militia, they regularly beat BA.
Boch Militia is a half season team made up of prep players. But, thanks, Boch Militia dad. Short memory, MHR shows you as 6-2 losers to BA.

Don't forget, the NTDP is "USHL." The truly elite players from NE play here until they're 16, then they leave.

TJW is also in the USHL after not making the NTDP.

One of BA's U16 players from last year made the jump to the USHL this year, playing out there as a 16 year old. Looks like he's suiting up but not sure how much TOI he's getting. Very little production according to Elite Prospects data.

What has evolved in the past 5 - 10 years is a "pecking order" for local hockey talent.

1. NTDP
2. USHL
3. Top Prep
4. Decent Prep
5. Catholics
T6. Low Prep
T6. Public

Not sure where to put T1EHL in there. Only two local teams, and not all the players are local. But, we don't seem to export talent to the other T1EHL teams, either. Least not that I'm aware.


militia have been around less than a year and had a pretty embarrassing showing at states, staff crazy unprepared for a pretty big event and were outmatched by experienced guys and it was clear as day for everyone to see.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Anon
anon
Is the tier 1 elite hockey league invite only or can a player try out? Just curious...


The only T1EHL team in this area is Boston Advantage and they do have tryouts but my guess is most players are prepicked so your kid has to really standout to have a chance. Not sure about other teams in league but they're not really convenient for us here anyhow...

NH Monarchs as well

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

anon
anon
USHL not the problem - if a kid is good enough to play there let him go. It's the other garbage programs grabbing HS kids that are the problem as mentioned in the post. Stay in HS, play with your buddies - then play a yr or two of jr's if you want to make a run at it. Could be wrong but dont think there are lots of HS kids running to USHL - and again if they are good enough to play there go get'em.


There's not many HS kids from Massschusetts running to the USHL because Massachusetts hockey doesn't produce that many high level players. Its as simple as that. All our myriad youth, high school, prep, split season, summer tournament....hockey has done is water down the talent and coaching so much that kids that could have been players get lost in the sh_t. The Miracle team was half from Massachusetts. This year's world juniors team has 3. Go watch a Prep game, which is supposed to be the top hockey in this area. Even between the "best" teams the hockey is terrible (If there's 3 D-men in all of Massachusetts prep that can make consistent breakout passes on the tape I'd be amazed) All the discussion about prep vs HS is a joke. They both suck compared to U16 in the Tier 1 Elite Hockey League (excluding the BA, who also suck).
Saw BA play recently, game I saw they lost 4-2 to the NJ Avalanche, which MHR has as #6 in the country. BA is just over .500 overall, and just under that in the T1EHL. According to MHR, it Looks like they had an 0-4 weekend, playing against #8, #9, #25 and #59. So realistically, best they probably could have expected would have been 1-3, 2-2 if they stole a game.

My point is, they aren't great, but they hardly suck. They skated with NJ, but they weren't as cohesive. Lack size up front. Goalie stood on his head.

Would the U16s be competitive with top preps, like Milton, Thayer? No. Not enough size, strength to make up for 2-3 year age difference.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Anon
anon
anon
USHL not the problem - if a kid is good enough to play there let him go. It's the other garbage programs grabbing HS kids that are the problem as mentioned in the post. Stay in HS, play with your buddies - then play a yr or two of jr's if you want to make a run at it. Could be wrong but dont think there are lots of HS kids running to USHL - and again if they are good enough to play there go get'em.


There's not many HS kids from Massschusetts running to the USHL because Massachusetts hockey doesn't produce that many high level players. Its as simple as that. All our myriad youth, high school, prep, split season, summer tournament....hockey has done is water down the talent and coaching so much that kids that could have been players get lost in the sh_t. The Miracle team was half from Massachusetts. This year's world juniors team has 3. Go watch a Prep game, which is supposed to be the top hockey in this area. Even between the "best" teams the hockey is terrible (If there's 3 D-men in all of Massachusetts prep that can make consistent breakout passes on the tape I'd be amazed) All the discussion about prep vs HS is a joke. They both suck compared to U16 in the Tier 1 Elite Hockey League (excluding the BA, who also suck).
Saw BA play recently, game I saw they lost 4-2 to the NJ Avalanche, which MHR has as #6 in the country. BA is just over .500 overall, and just under that in the T1EHL. According to MHR, it Looks like they had an 0-4 weekend, playing against #8, #9, #25 and #59. So realistically, best they probably could have expected would have been 1-3, 2-2 if they stole a game.

My point is, they aren't great, but they hardly suck. They skated with NJ, but they weren't as cohesive. Lack size up front. Goalie stood on his head.

Would the U16s be competitive with top preps, like Milton, Thayer? No. Not enough size, strength to make up for 2-3 year age difference.


I can't believe how much Mass IS hockey has fallen off the last few years! Prep seems to be younger than ever and full season midget seems to be stealing enough kids to water things down.

I think I am starting to lean towards fs midgets. However, here in NE, maybe 4-6 decent programs as in top 50 and no elite, as in top 20. Maybe the USPHL going Tier 2 will change things?

Any thoughts?

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Anon
Anon
anon
anon
USHL not the problem - if a kid is good enough to play there let him go. It's the other garbage programs grabbing HS kids that are the problem as mentioned in the post. Stay in HS, play with your buddies - then play a yr or two of jr's if you want to make a run at it. Could be wrong but dont think there are lots of HS kids running to USHL - and again if they are good enough to play there go get'em.


There's not many HS kids from Massschusetts running to the USHL because Massachusetts hockey doesn't produce that many high level players. Its as simple as that. All our myriad youth, high school, prep, split season, summer tournament....hockey has done is water down the talent and coaching so much that kids that could have been players get lost in the sh_t. The Miracle team was half from Massachusetts. This year's world juniors team has 3. Go watch a Prep game, which is supposed to be the top hockey in this area. Even between the "best" teams the hockey is terrible (If there's 3 D-men in all of Massachusetts prep that can make consistent breakout passes on the tape I'd be amazed) All the discussion about prep vs HS is a joke. They both suck compared to U16 in the Tier 1 Elite Hockey League (excluding the BA, who also suck).
Saw BA play recently, game I saw they lost 4-2 to the NJ Avalanche, which MHR has as #6 in the country. BA is just over .500 overall, and just under that in the T1EHL. According to MHR, it Looks like they had an 0-4 weekend, playing against #8, #9, #25 and #59. So realistically, best they probably could have expected would have been 1-3, 2-2 if they stole a game.

My point is, they aren't great, but they hardly suck. They skated with NJ, but they weren't as cohesive. Lack size up front. Goalie stood on his head.

Would the U16s be competitive with top preps, like Milton, Thayer? No. Not enough size, strength to make up for 2-3 year age difference.


I can't believe how much Mass IS hockey has fallen off the last few years! Prep seems to be younger than ever and full season midget seems to be stealing enough kids to water things down.

I think I am starting to lean towards fs midgets. However, here in NE, maybe 4-6 decent programs as in top 50 and no elite, as in top 20. Maybe the USPHL going Tier 2 will change things?

Any thoughts?


USPHL is not going Tier II, it was denied by USA Hockey

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Anon
USPHL is not going Tier II, it was denied by USA Hockey


Not technically Tier II since USA Hockey rejected it. But they are creating their own free-to-play league.

http://www.usphl.com/ncdc

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

So they will still be tier 3 and just because it will be free for all of the provincial families that are afraid to travel outside of New England people think it will then compete with the USHL?

Please

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

anon
So they will still be tier 3 and just because it will be free for all of the provincial families that are afraid to travel outside of New England people think it will then compete with the USHL?

Please


Tier 2, Tier 3 doesn't matter. What matters is the quality of hockey, the cost and the proximity of the league to the 90% of the division 1-3 schools where the kids from the east will end up attending. I am certain there will be bumps and changes on the fly but a few years down the road will be viable

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

For those on the South Shore who know Hinghams team well, how would they do against BA's u16 & I 18 teams?

Compare

I think Hingham would lose to both U-16 and U-18 BA teams. In fact I don't think it would even be close. The full season teams are made up of kids who know the game and specialize in hockey, are plus skaters and can move the puck effectively.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

The coaches of the few kids taken for Hockey East schools will still send them out to the Midwest. USPHL will have a few D-I kids (Kings, Hitmen...) but it will still be a D-3 college league for the foreseeable future.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

anon
So they will still be tier 3 and just because it will be free for all of the provincial families that are afraid to travel outside of New England people think it will then compete with the USHL?

Please
Ummm, why would you think that anyone other than you would expect a Tier 2 team to be competitive against a Tier 1 league?

The USPHL needs to be competitive against the NAHL, which is Tier 2 and tuition free. The Northeast Generals moved here last year, will play out of Attleboro. THAT'S who the USPHL wants to compete against.

USA Hockey better be careful, this decision has disaster written all over it. I personally expect the AAU to make inroads into NE youth hockey through the USPHL, into the EHF.

And, if you had a kid that is at that level, you'd understand how attractive tuition free hockey without billeting is, as an alternative to the NAHL. Not the USHL.

Re: Mighty MC falls to Delbarton

Anon
anon
So they will still be tier 3 and just because it will be free for all of the provincial families that are afraid to travel outside of New England people think it will then compete with the USHL?

Please
Ummm, why would you think that anyone other than you would expect a Tier 2 team to be competitive against a Tier 1 league?

The USPHL needs to be competitive against the NAHL, which is Tier 2 and tuition free. The Northeast Generals moved here last year, will play out of Attleboro. THAT'S who the USPHL wants to compete against.

USA Hockey better be careful, this decision has disaster written all over it. I personally expect the AAU to make inroads into NE youth hockey through the USPHL, into the EHF.

And, if you had a kid that is at that level, you'd understand how attractive tuition free hockey without billeting is, as an alternative to the NAHL. Not the USHL.


That's what I'm thinking. AAU is trying to get back into hockey. So here is a perfect opportunity. I can see that somewhere between now and the beginning of next season you see an announcement that they are partnering this new league with AAU and then not longer after they move the rest of the USPHL out of USA Hockey and to AAU.