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Re: USPHL Draft

anon
You do realize that the majority of kids that left Prep this past year for the USHL either ended up in a lower league, stayed but did not play much, or came back to Prep. These kids are the better kids in Prep but not quite ready for Tier 1 Jr's. Perhaps if the NCDC had been around last season, they would have had a better option. USPHL Premiere would have smacked Prep around.

They draft kids because they PROJECTS them for down the road. 1,2, 3 years down the road just as the NHL PROJECTS kids for down the road. That is why they draft them.

Can you provide some examples of kids that ended up in lower leagues, or came back to school, or at least the names of the schools they left? Not doubting your claim, but the term "Prep" covers so much territory that it makes a difference.

Having a kid that plays Prep hockey, having seen the level of play in the USHL, and knowing kids that have made the jump, I'm just having a hard time seeing top players at top prep programs not able to play at the USHL level.

Re: USPHL Draft

Anon
anon
You do realize that the majority of kids that left Prep this past year for the USHL either ended up in a lower league, stayed but did not play much, or came back to Prep. These kids are the better kids in Prep but not quite ready for Tier 1 Jr's. Perhaps if the NCDC had been around last season, they would have had a better option. USPHL Premiere would have smacked Prep around.

They draft kids because they PROJECTS them for down the road. 1,2, 3 years down the road just as the NHL PROJECTS kids for down the road. That is why they draft them.

Can you provide some examples of kids that ended up in lower leagues, or came back to school, or at least the names of the schools they left? Not doubting your claim, but the term "Prep" covers so much territory that it makes a difference.

Having a kid that plays Prep hockey, having seen the level of play in the USHL, and knowing kids that have made the jump, I'm just having a hard time seeing top players at top prep programs not able to play at the USHL level.


No disrespect intended. All of these kids are in great places and no doubt will have very successful careers. To answer your question:

Kid from Thayer who was the leading scorer in Prep as a Jr went out for Sr year and was back for Prep Season. Kid from Nobles came back for the season. TJW at Cushing was close to point a game in a season that he started off injured and was a -21 on 16 points in 47 games . Kid from BA who went out there and did not play much 53games 2 pointsts -12. Kid from AP, 2 games in the USHL. 43 games for SSK. There are others and a few AAA midget kids from the area of the same caliber that went to the Midwest and could not crack it. A 97 from VT left Proctor a few years ago. Was a point a game kid and has toiled out there for a few years. Just the ones off the top of my head.


And I have to say it again, No Disrespect intended!!! These kids are all talented, committed , hard working kids who are sacrificing a lot for a game they love. I would love for my kids to have these problems. Point is the NCDC is going to give many of these kids a better, cost effective option. If it proves viable my bet is they will be comparable to the Tier 2 leagues and the Canadians; BCHL, AJHL, CCHL, etc. Once they outgrow this local league, they may be better prepared for the USHL

Re: USPHL Draft

anon
Anon
anon
You do realize that the majority of kids that left Prep this past year for the USHL either ended up in a lower league, stayed but did not play much, or came back to Prep. These kids are the better kids in Prep but not quite ready for Tier 1 Jr's. Perhaps if the NCDC had been around last season, they would have had a better option. USPHL Premiere would have smacked Prep around.

They draft kids because they PROJECTS them for down the road. 1,2, 3 years down the road just as the NHL PROJECTS kids for down the road. That is why they draft them.

Can you provide some examples of kids that ended up in lower leagues, or came back to school, or at least the names of the schools they left? Not doubting your claim, but the term "Prep" covers so much territory that it makes a difference.

Having a kid that plays Prep hockey, having seen the level of play in the USHL, and knowing kids that have made the jump, I'm just having a hard time seeing top players at top prep programs not able to play at the USHL level.


No disrespect intended. All of these kids are in great places and no doubt will have very successful careers. To answer your question:

Kid from Thayer who was the leading scorer in Prep as a Jr went out for Sr year and was back for Prep Season. Kid from Nobles came back for the season. TJW at Cushing was close to point a game in a season that he started off injured and was a -21 on 16 points in 47 games . Kid from BA who went out there and did not play much 53games 2 pointsts -12. Kid from AP, 2 games in the USHL. 43 games for SSK. There are others and a few AAA midget kids from the area of the same caliber that went to the Midwest and could not crack it. A 97 from VT left Proctor a few years ago. Was a point a game kid and has toiled out there for a few years. Just the ones off the top of my head.


And I have to say it again, No Disrespect intended!!! These kids are all talented, committed , hard working kids who are sacrificing a lot for a game they love. I would love for my kids to have these problems. Point is the NCDC is going to give many of these kids a better, cost effective option. If it proves viable my bet is they will be comparable to the Tier 2 leagues and the Canadians; BCHL, AJHL, CCHL, etc. Once they outgrow this local league, they may be better prepared for the USHL
Thanks for that. A few extenuating circumstances in there, but I think you made your point well. It's a lot to expect a 16 year old to make it, outside of the NTDP.

Re: USPHL Draft

Anon
anon
Anon
anon
You do realize that the majority of kids that left Prep this past year for the USHL either ended up in a lower league, stayed but did not play much, or came back to Prep. These kids are the better kids in Prep but not quite ready for Tier 1 Jr's. Perhaps if the NCDC had been around last season, they would have had a better option. USPHL Premiere would have smacked Prep around.

They draft kids because they PROJECTS them for down the road. 1,2, 3 years down the road just as the NHL PROJECTS kids for down the road. That is why they draft them.

Can you provide some examples of kids that ended up in lower leagues, or came back to school, or at least the names of the schools they left? Not doubting your claim, but the term "Prep" covers so much territory that it makes a difference.

Having a kid that plays Prep hockey, having seen the level of play in the USHL, and knowing kids that have made the jump, I'm just having a hard time seeing top players at top prep programs not able to play at the USHL level.


No disrespect intended. All of these kids are in great places and no doubt will have very successful careers. To answer your question:

Kid from Thayer who was the leading scorer in Prep as a Jr went out for Sr year and was back for Prep Season. Kid from Nobles came back for the season. TJW at Cushing was close to point a game in a season that he started off injured and was a -21 on 16 points in 47 games . Kid from BA who went out there and did not play much 53games 2 pointsts -12. Kid from AP, 2 games in the USHL. 43 games for SSK. There are others and a few AAA midget kids from the area of the same caliber that went to the Midwest and could not crack it. A 97 from VT left Proctor a few years ago. Was a point a game kid and has toiled out there for a few years. Just the ones off the top of my head.


And I have to say it again, No Disrespect intended!!! These kids are all talented, committed , hard working kids who are sacrificing a lot for a game they love. I would love for my kids to have these problems. Point is the NCDC is going to give many of these kids a better, cost effective option. If it proves viable my bet is they will be comparable to the Tier 2 leagues and the Canadians; BCHL, AJHL, CCHL, etc. Once they outgrow this local league, they may be better prepared for the USHL
Thanks for that. A few extenuating circumstances in there, but I think you made your point well. It's a lot to expect a 16 year old to make it, outside of the NTDP.


There are more and more strikingly are the goalies!! The majority of the Prep school goalies move out of the USHL pretty quickly. Other than KP, who is likely a 1st - 3rd round pick (NHL), they all ended up in NAHL, BCHL, USPHL.

Re: USPHL Draft

Where are the once mighty and powerful Bay State Breakers??? Boy, how far have they fallen...

Re: USPHL Draft

Level of USHL is a lot higher than most realize. Your talking about a 16 team league that feeds 60 NCAA programs. So it's not a league where the top 1/3 of players move on to the next level, nearly all will or could play NCAA and nearly all have or come to the league with a NCAA comittment in hand. The huge proponents of the leage will say that it's at the NCAA level already and in some regards you can see why they would say that. The top 1/3 of the teams in that league are on par with the NDP U18's and every year the U18's play a circuit of NCAA teams and win a number of those games. Also you can look at any number of recent USHL alum's and see that their production from USHL to NCAA goes up, not down when they move to on to college.

Re: USPHL Draft

anon
Level of USHL is a lot higher than most realize. Your talking about a 16 team league that feeds 60 NCAA programs. So it's not a league where the top 1/3 of players move on to the next level, nearly all will or could play NCAA and nearly all have or come to the league with a NCAA comittment in hand. The huge proponents of the leage will say that it's at the NCAA level already and in some regards you can see why they would say that. The top 1/3 of the teams in that league are on par with the NDP U18's and every year the U18's play a circuit of NCAA teams and win a number of those games. Also you can look at any number of recent USHL alum's and see that their production from USHL to NCAA goes up, not down when they move to on to college.




All very good points. I would also add that the drop from Div1 to Div 2/3 in hockey is nothing like it is in other sports. With only 60 Div 1 programs plus 80 or so Div 2/3 programs there aren't that many spots. Every other sport you may have far more youth participants but so many programs spread across Div 1-3, NAIA, Jr College, etc. There is place for every athlete!!

To your point, the NDP U18 team during their late season east coast trip beats U Maine one night and loses handedly the next day verse UNE ( Div 3). I am sure there is much more to the story ( Long trip, back to back, clearing the bench, bad game, fluky goals, etc). Still point is, just to play college hockey at any level is quite an achievement

Re: USPHL Draft

And it's only going to get tougher as the doors are more open now than ever to Canadian and EU/Russian players. USHL just opened the door to more import players and NCAA has no limits. Major Junior is really feeling the pinch from NCAA. NCAA fills a gap that MJ can't fill, which is where do kids play when they age out of juniors but are not ready for NHL/AHL etc. QMJHL is really dying on the vine in terms of being an NHL pipeline league and the OHL has very high end talent that jump to NHL, but if you project to be a mid level player in that league, more are looking to USHL/NCAA as a better path because you can now develop in a great situation between 21-24 and then see if you are NHL caliber.

Re: USPHL Draft

anon
And it's only going to get tougher as the doors are more open now than ever to Canadian and EU/Russian players. USHL just opened the door to more import players and NCAA has no limits. Major Junior is really feeling the pinch from NCAA. NCAA fills a gap that MJ can't fill, which is where do kids play when they age out of juniors but are not ready for NHL/AHL etc. QMJHL is really dying on the vine in terms of being an NHL pipeline league and the OHL has very high end talent that jump to NHL, but if you project to be a mid level player in that league, more are looking to USHL/NCAA as a better path because you can now develop in a great situation between 21-24 and then see if you are NHL caliber.


Great insight! 1/3 of all NHL players played NCAA hockey. It seems if the ECHL was a more stable developmental league, than perhaps they could take on those aging out of Jr's and really not interested in the college education. These days it would be crazy not to go the NCAA route. IMHO

Re: USPHL Draft

anon
anon
And it's only going to get tougher as the doors are more open now than ever to Canadian and EU/Russian players. USHL just opened the door to more import players and NCAA has no limits. Major Junior is really feeling the pinch from NCAA. NCAA fills a gap that MJ can't fill, which is where do kids play when they age out of juniors but are not ready for NHL/AHL etc. QMJHL is really dying on the vine in terms of being an NHL pipeline league and the OHL has very high end talent that jump to NHL, but if you project to be a mid level player in that league, more are looking to USHL/NCAA as a better path because you can now develop in a great situation between 21-24 and then see if you are NHL caliber.


Great insight! 1/3 of all NHL players played NCAA hockey. It seems if the ECHL was a more stable developmental league, than perhaps they could take on those aging out of Jr's and really not interested in the college education. These days it would be crazy not to go the NCAA route. IMHO
IMO it's really hard for college athletes to be student athletes. The demands on their time are huge - it isn't "college athletics" any more, it's pretty much the minor leagues. That require that classwork be compromised. IF my kid ends up playing D1 I'm not expecting him to major in what he expects to do for a living. He can always go back to school when hockey is done for his true major.

Re: USPHL Draft

True the demands are high but in hockey, travel is minimized and taking a high course load in the summer is how most achieve the student part of student athlete. I'm sure some choose basket weaving 101 but I think that is more of the exception than the rule.

Re: USPHL Draft

Anon
anon
anon
And it's only going to get tougher as the doors are more open now than ever to Canadian and EU/Russian players. USHL just opened the door to more import players and NCAA has no limits. Major Junior is really feeling the pinch from NCAA. NCAA fills a gap that MJ can't fill, which is where do kids play when they age out of juniors but are not ready for NHL/AHL etc. QMJHL is really dying on the vine in terms of being an NHL pipeline league and the OHL has very high end talent that jump to NHL, but if you project to be a mid level player in that league, more are looking to USHL/NCAA as a better path because you can now develop in a great situation between 21-24 and then see if you are NHL caliber.


Great insight! 1/3 of all NHL players played NCAA hockey. It seems if the ECHL was a more stable developmental league, than perhaps they could take on those aging out of Jr's and really not interested in the college education. These days it would be crazy not to go the NCAA route. IMHO
IMO it's really hard for college athletes to be student athletes. The demands on their time are huge - it isn't "college athletics" any more, it's pretty much the minor leagues. That require that classwork be compromised. IF my kid ends up playing D1 I'm not expecting him to major in what he expects to do for a living. He can always go back to school when hockey is done for his true major.


Agreed. Create a good educational foundation, have a great experiance as a college athlete ( D1,2,3) and enjoy the journey wherever it takes you.

I was talking to a local dad who's kid plays in the NHL. I asked him when did they know? He said they really never did. He said his son just kept seeing the other players making the next step up and figured, he could too. Next thing you know he is playing in the NHL making a great living, playing a game he is passionate about. He may have been showing some humility but in any case that really stuck with me!

Good luck to your kid on his journey.

Re: USPHL Draft

Anon
anon
anon
And it's only going to get tougher as the doors are more open now than ever to Canadian and EU/Russian players. USHL just opened the door to more import players and NCAA has no limits. Major Junior is really feeling the pinch from NCAA. NCAA fills a gap that MJ can't fill, which is where do kids play when they age out of juniors but are not ready for NHL/AHL etc. QMJHL is really dying on the vine in terms of being an NHL pipeline league and the OHL has very high end talent that jump to NHL, but if you project to be a mid level player in that league, more are looking to USHL/NCAA as a better path because you can now develop in a great situation between 21-24 and then see if you are NHL caliber.


Great insight! 1/3 of all NHL players played NCAA hockey. It seems if the ECHL was a more stable developmental league, than perhaps they could take on those aging out of Jr's and really not interested in the college education. These days it would be crazy not to go the NCAA route. IMHO
IMO it's really hard for college athletes to be student athletes. The demands on their time are huge - it isn't "college athletics" any more, it's pretty much the minor leagues. That require that classwork be compromised. IF my kid ends up playing D1 I'm not expecting him to major in what he expects to do for a living. He can always go back to school when hockey is done for his true major.


You do realize that 80% of what you guys are talking about isn't realistic for 98% of the local kids?

Re: USPHL Draft

Depends on the subset of kids you are referring to. If your saying any kid who ever laced up skates on the town mite c team, then yes, talk of juniors/college hockey is not applicable. Good observation.

Re: USPHL Draft

anon
Depends on the subset of kids you are referring to. If your saying any kid who ever laced up skates on the town mite c team, then yes, talk of juniors/college hockey is not applicable. Good observation.

Exactly. I think the people that are posting on the HS/Prep hockey board have a little better handle on their kid's future than posters in the youth hockey forum. It isn't called the "Kiddie Board" purely because of the age of the players.

Re: USPHL Draft

anon
Anon
anon
anon
And it's only going to get tougher as the doors are more open now than ever to Canadian and EU/Russian players. USHL just opened the door to more import players and NCAA has no limits. Major Junior is really feeling the pinch from NCAA. NCAA fills a gap that MJ can't fill, which is where do kids play when they age out of juniors but are not ready for NHL/AHL etc. QMJHL is really dying on the vine in terms of being an NHL pipeline league and the OHL has very high end talent that jump to NHL, but if you project to be a mid level player in that league, more are looking to USHL/NCAA as a better path because you can now develop in a great situation between 21-24 and then see if you are NHL caliber.


Great insight! 1/3 of all NHL players played NCAA hockey. It seems if the ECHL was a more stable developmental league, than perhaps they could take on those aging out of Jr's and really not interested in the college education. These days it would be crazy not to go the NCAA route. IMHO
IMO it's really hard for college athletes to be student athletes. The demands on their time are huge - it isn't "college athletics" any more, it's pretty much the minor leagues. That require that classwork be compromised. IF my kid ends up playing D1 I'm not expecting him to major in what he expects to do for a living. He can always go back to school when hockey is done for his true major.


You do realize that 80% of what you guys are talking about isn't realistic for 98% of the local kids?


Yes, i realize that but i am pretty sure the majority of this board does not. Don't take away the "Dangling Carrot"

Re: USPHL Draft

You guys finally nailed it. After all, why let you kids run the risk of being disapointed. Just tell them outright that the odds are against them so don't bother trying. Bravo.

Re: USPHL Draft

"Enjoy the journey wherever it may take you"

Re: USPHL Draft

So when a kid is drafted, does that mean he has already told the team he will do it? Or is it a pig-in-a-poke like getting drafted into the Q and they hope you'll start studying French ASAP?

Re: USPHL Draft

What do you think? There are many good players, some better than the ones that were picked. So with 10 total picks, why draft a lesser player or any player if you had no idea if they were even interested in playing?

Re: USPHL Draft

anon
So when a kid is drafted, does that mean he has already told the team he will do it? Or is it a pig-in-a-poke like getting drafted into the Q and they hope you'll start studying French ASAP?


Just like USHL I am sure noone was drafted without getting a phone call or two

Re: USPHL Draft

Provided that USHL affiliates are eligible to be rostered on NCDC teams, it's a worthwhile gamble.

In some cases, a young USHL draftee doesn't make the team out of camp, and then has to find a place to play/develop for a year+. Prep used to be the only option, but now that kid could play NCDC for a year, or until he makes the USHL roster.

Older kids could also realize they are outgrowing Prep, and see NCDC as a better option than playing against younger kids for another year.

Re: USPHL Draft

Anon
anon
Anon
anon
Anon
On website.

Not sure why they would draft players with D1 deals already drafted by a USHL team. I suppose the thinking is, maybe they want stay home. But, in my mind, there's not yet a choice to be made, if my kid had to choose.


Kids might not be ready for USHL and need that one transition year. Makes a lot of sense actually. Can't see teams drafting kids without talking to them in advance like the USHL does, so I would imagine there is a reason.

And I completely agree - there's no decision to be made. If you are USHL ready you go. My son is not at only 17 so we are looking forward to him being in this league for the year and he was USHL drafted and has gotten D1 offers.
Congrats to your son. Players I know are 17 and 18 and playing top Prep. I can see them leaving early to play USHL (like, this coming year or next), not NCDC. If they stay, in most cases they are 19 when they graduate anyway.

Who knows, you may be right. Guess we'll see.


He wasn't ever really interested in the Prep route so this makes sense for us in his situation. He had chances to play for a lot of the top prep schools but just didn't think that was the path for him. It's not the only route now - there are a lot of different options and that's a good thing.
If you don't mind sharing (in an anonymous way), where does your kid play now (MIAA D1 contender, average D1 team, Catholic, etc)? Why do you feel he isn't ready?

The level of play in the USHL is certainly strong, don't get me wrong, but it isn't off the charts. I would offer that a kid getting NCAA D1 attention and playing top line/top pair (or close to it) at a top Prep is USHL ready at 17, 18 (age at the start of the year) at the latest.

Sounds like you are viewing the NCDC as the equivalent of Top Prep, and it may very well be. It's a bit too soon to know that, IMO.


Played 16U full season for 2 years with some 18U also last year. Skills and speed are ready, but I believe he needs to fill out a little more before going out which he wants to do next year for certain. Doesn't seem right to send him out for next year if he falls into a situation where he would be a 6th or 7th D. I guess I will find out in a few weeks at the camp though what their interest level is for now.