And the coach. If he's really into hockey then he will want to play for a reputable FS team

It's true. If the kid has dreams of playing post high school the sad part is they pretty much need to move on to a full season team by their junior year of high school. If you don't beleive it then go and watch a D-I high school or prep game. Everyone has left and the change happened just a few short years ago. It's all very much like the mass exodus from Town Hockey in the mid 2000's.

The only players that are exiting Top prep or Catholic school teams, are the ones who are not that talented and can't break into the lineup on a regular basis. Fact

You are right, as it stands today, but that doesn't mean it's what's best for their development and progression.

Being 3rd line Catholic or 4th line Prep isn't going to lead anywhere. Those kids would be better off playing FS, especially T1EHL. More ice, more meaningful minutes, better opposing players. They just don't realize that yet. They think being 3rd line at MC or Brooks means something different than it does.

And, I think you'll see that change soon, too.

To think any kid that is 3rd line at a Catholic or 4th line Prep is going make a T1EHL team is plain silly. Zero chance. A U16 T1EHL team would dismantle every D-1 high school team in the state and half of the prep teams.

Not locally ( not Prep anyway). Prep is still better than both u16 and u18 but i agree the landscape has changed

The league is great, the locals not so much. Both had kids that couldn't make CC and Prep Varsity on their U16 rosters last year. Those spots SHOULD be occupied by those lower half roster kids. Win-win. They see better competition/quality minutes, local teams are more competitive.

Sometimes the "...kids that couldn't make CC and Prep Varsity..." is due to their size and they are better off playing against U-16 than P.G. 19 & 20 year olds and 19 year old 'stay back a year for academic reason" kids in the C.C.

Yup, or they are Prep kids stuck behind recruited 14/15 year olds that were guaranteed roster spots but then play limited minutes.

Wait till the hitting starts!

The whole process is broken/in need of reform. At some schools, every spot on the team is recruited and the roster is set by the previous April, when the acceptances come in. No walk-ons, no moving up from JV.

I know a team that recruited/admitted 5 goalies this year. Already have four rostered from last year. Don't know how many accepted, but the teams all have to offer spots to more kids than they need, because the kids are talking to multiple schools. If more accept than the team anticipated, now you have a problem. Someone's getting screwed.

Like most things in life it becomes a self regulating issue. Those schools will see the numbers decline and those who get screwed will move to FS teams if hockey is important to them. It happened in Town Hockey when the daddy coaches stacked the A team with friends and family, it happens at high schools where the coaches can see talent and they shaft kids and they leave for Jr.s and it will happen at preps where they over book incoming kids.

Very good point.

You also may see schools get snagged for giving non-need-based aid. Schools have gotten caught before, and it's definitely happening. Could be by a team that loses the recruiting war, or feels the playing field isn't level, could be by a kid that gets screwed.

Sorry, I don't believe this ^^ Can you site a real life example where you know this is true? What school? What sport?

Agreed. Pretty sure there is not a governing body for this. Each school will make a decision based off a number of qualifiers. It is basicly a coupon! Not like it is a govt funded program.

Players get screwed over when parents don't do their homework on choosing a program..Do you really think your Freshman is going to walk in and get playing time on a Prep varsity program or a strong CC program? Be realistic and have that conversation with admissions, the coach, his adviser, etc..

Some do. Some are told they will, and then the playing time isn't delivered, or they are puyt on an underclass team "because of the numbers." Kids and parents are lied to all the time by these coaches. In all sports. Don't kid yourself that it isn't happening.

Of course, it's happening on the FS teams, too. Go ask the families that signed contracts with Boch Militia FS this year what they were told and what's being delivered. We were smart enough to know to stay away for a year, probably two.

We are just about to start looking at schools for next year..how the hell do you know what to believe!!!!!!

Sorry, wrong. ISL is the governing body. Strict league requirement that aid be need based to keep the competition level. If everyone follows the same rules, everyone has the ability to recruit equally. So when a team violates it, the other teams in the league will cry foul.

Financial aid awards are subjective and only partly based off of A Sally Maes suggested awards

I'm obviously not going to talk about any current situations since it would all be heresay, but I have no issue with stating facts.

Lawrence Academy was stripped of their 2009 and 2010 ISL football titles due to financial aid issues. St. Georges refused to take the field, citing player safety. Head Coach, AD and Head of School all "resigned." It killed the hockey program, too, once the players that were already there graduated and new players were afraid to commit to the school.

But, they're back on top of the ISL now. Rostered 25 players last season according to Elite Prospects, and that doesn't include two starters that got expelled right before the season started. They all dressed. Seeing all these kids on the bench during the games was ridiculous. Think the kids getting 1 or 2 shifts a game were developing?

You are so disillusioned, Let me guess, your kid plays on some FS U16 team?

Just the opposite actually. He played on some good U-16 teams and then went off to his Super 8 high school team. His U-16 coach told him if he had college aspirations he might want to stay with the full season program, but he didn't. Then he went on to play for the high school and ooooof. No lie, his U-16 team would have beaten his high school team by 4-5 goals.

Couldn't be more wrong. BC High lost 3 of their top players to private schools last summer.

Every Super 8 type school loses multiple players every year. It is getting to the point where teams that have numerous players who have hockey as a secondary sport are now making a run in the Super 8. Last year Hingham had 4-5 committed lacrosse players, a couple soccer players and a couple baseball players all as kids getting the most ice time. Totally upside down when what is left in high school hockey are kids who aren't all that serious about hockey or the prospects of having to play a couple years of junior hockey and walking onto a college campus as a 21 year old freshmen.

Top prep teams still offer a better avenue to Juniors and college hockey than the local FS teams, but the gap is closing.

FS U16 is definitely a notch below the top prep product, and a lot of the better U18 kids nationally leave the FS leagues for the NAHL and USHL, so that waters down the product.

But, your point is spot on. The landscape is changing.

Stop the stupidity. The top kids in this area are not and never will leave Prep's, Catholics or even super quality publics for full season U16/U18 teams. The area U16 and U18 teams are for disgruntled area kids that can't get ice time at their school, or for out of state kids that can't cut it in their home area programs. And don't give me the more Ice time crap. All of the top tier Prep,Catholic, and Super 8 quality kids are playing legit 1/2 season in the fall, and on show case teams in the spring/summer. Now if the argument is that Preps and Catholics are now "watered down" because the top talent leave for Junior hockey (USHL, NAHL, USTD program) before graduation, than you may have an argument worthy of discussion. But please, stop with the comparable U16/U18 crap. It's just youth hockey organizations trying to keep the gravy train rolling on the backs of a few strong mid-western programs that thrive because they fill the void in that area of the country.

Tell that mean ocean!

I love arrogant ass hats like you. "Never" is a very long time. How the hell do you know what decisions people are going to make 5 years from now? 3 years from now? Next year? Do you have direct experience with the top FS teams to even be able to have an opinion? Which league? What age?

I can tell you that the NTDP folks (I assume that's who you meant by 'USTD') and USHL folks disagree with you. They are focusing far more on the T1EHL kids than Prep kids. The numbers bear it out. Catholic team kids and MIAA kids aren't even in the conversation any more.

Just because your opinion differs from others doesn't make it any more valid. No matter how obnoxiously you state it.

As long as dumb asses like you are on the board giving folks bad advice about the virtues of New England based U16/U18 full season programs, ass hats like me will be around to set the record straight. Catholics aren't in the mix anymore because the top talent jumps to Prep or Juniors after by Junior year. That's well established by now, but the fact remains, Catholics are a far better option for an underclassman to prove themselves, if they're up to the task, than some crap U16 team thrown together by youth program owners whose only goal is to continue to fleece youth parents out of their money as kids get older. The reason the U16/U18 programs in the area suck, and always will suck, is because there is no market for it. Catholics and Preps fill that need in New England and do it in a academic setting, which is invaluable and far superior to the alternative. If your planning on moving to the Chicago or Detroit areas in the near future that don't have that same high school/Prep hockey framework in place, or to one of the emerging markets like California, Colorado, Arizona or Florida, then yes, you have a legitimate case for pushing your kid towards U16/U18 full season hockey. If you're in New England, you'll only have yourself to blame when you're kid won't talk to you anymore because you made him play on some crap U16 team instead of with the top kids in New England, just to stroke your own ego and to prove you were smarter than everyone else. Good luck with that though.

I realize reading isn't your strong suit, so let me state it again.

Top Prep is still better than FS. But.

A 4th line Prep kid will develop and progress more playing FS in a league like T1EHL.

My kid plays Prep. He's a top 4 D. So, he get minutes, including special teams. I go to these games, I see the bottom pair D and, at some schools, the 4TH PAIR D getting limited minutes - 2 or 3 shifts a game. They aren't getting any better. If anything, they are devolving.

If all of the 4th line players were to go to the local T1EHL teams, those teams would be better. Now, they are playing meaningful minutes, against kids that make up the BULK of the USHL.

Because, after all, that is where every player that wants to play after HS is probably going to spend time. If they're a true stud, while on the USNTDP. If not, then 25% of the kids drafted by the USHL played T1EHL.

And, even though my kid is playing at a high level, I'm not convinced I shouldn't be looking to pull him out of his senior year and have him play in the Midwest. Problem is, he's a good student, too, so we probably need to pursue that avenue, first.

My kid hates his HS coach so opts to play T1EHL....he is the 2nd best player in his grade....if they want a different path, and love to play, let them. Just don't berate people who make different choices than you.

Ummm...Ok. So I'm assuming the above response is sarcasm, but if not, let's break it down..."My kid hates his high school coach"...I believe that would place him squarely in the disgruntled area kids category... I'm also guessing you believe the old adage of working hard and overcoming adversity is a thing of the past as well..."He is the 2nd best player in his grade"...that's straight out of the mite parent handbook and just plain scary...and sad...which would place you squarely in the stroking your own ego because you're smarter than everyone else category...Who knows, maybe your kid is the one kid in New England who won't hate you for making him play on some crap U16 youth hockey extension team instead of letting him earn his playing time at a high school or Prep, with everything that goes along with that...Anyway, if the OP is still reading this silly thread, see response above. I believe that may help you answer your questions about U16/U18 in this area.

PROBABLY?!? wait you are willing to toss a HS diploma from an 'elite' school. oh my head where are the priorities. i am... i don't know what to say, but good luck (btw thinking 20 years down the road).

This is true -

"I can tell you that the NTDP folks (I assume that's who you meant by 'USTD') and USHL folks disagree with you. They are focusing far more on the T1EHL kids than Prep kids. The numbers bear it out. Catholic team kids and MIAA kids aren't even in the conversation any more."

The problem is the guy who is trying to hate on full season teams is talking about the second rate full season teams (EHF clubs that are merely providing a place for kids to play that happen to go to public schools that have a long history of terrible hockey) and not T1EHL which he obviously knows nothing about. Two very different discussions.

There's that, and there's the fact that the two local T1EHL teams aren't strong. Monarchs were brand new last year but have a terrible recruiting disadvantage, being too far away. But even they have a kid that just pitched a shut out in the U17 Five Nations.

BA really has no excuse. They should be better.

BA U18 was ranked top 30 in the nation last year, and about 7th in the T1EHL. They were a very strong team, and will only get better if this trend towards FS continues. To say they were bad would not be true.

The real question is how many D-1 recruits do the T1EHL teams have and how many are coming out of the C.C. schools and other top D-1 programs???

Case dismissed.

Well, 31st and 10th based on MHR - why let facts get in the way of a good argument - but MHR is a flawed algorithm that rewards a team for losing to a highly ranked team by 3 or fewer goals as if it were a "victory."

The truth is that they eked out a T1EHL playoff berth and then finished 15th out of 16. It was important to the organization that they make it, but they were not in the top half talent-wise.

BTW, what position does your kid play on the team?

That's because the T1 is a very good league. I don't want to get into a huge argument here, just wanted to get the facts right. The Advantage were a very good team last year, and would have beat basically every MIAA team, and probably have habe held there own against prep teams. My son does not play for the team, I just know the organization very well. Let me ask you this, have you ever watched a T1EHL game? If not you have no idea what you're talking about. It's an extremely high level of hockey, and a lot of people have no idea how high it is.

Yes, a good friend of the family plays in the league. I've gone to see many games. It's very good league. But, the two local U16 teams - which is where my experience lies - would not be competitive against top prep. That's why it would be better for a 4th line / 3rd or 4th D pairing in Prep to play in the T1EHL - a team they can pretty easily make - rather than sit at the Prep level as underclassmen. At that age, kids need to play.

But, the coaches would see it as disloyal - even if it makes them better players when they are Juniors and Seniors.

I completely agree. The top prep teams, and probably even the middle of the pack prep teams would beat the local T1 U16 teams, but then again they are also a u16 team against kids probably much older than them.

Ohhhh say like P.G. 19 & 20 year olds? Yeah a 15 - 16 year old might be a bit intimidated. Skill wise they would have no problem with a prep team.

Another thing people who point to the U-18 T1 teams and what they don't know is the U-16 teams actually have superior talent in general because later on they move to the Midwest....and by 'Midwest' that means the USHL so there is actually a bit of fall off at U-18.

O.M.G. Will you two STFU!

Ummm, it's a discussion board. And it's more than two people. So how about if you STFU instead?

Relax honey.. I say honey because no man says ummm.

And nobody that is past HS age would say OMG.

Technically I'm starting my PG year in 5 days. Guess I'm just tired of all the parents crap.. we are the kids who play, not you! You have no idea how much more hockey is to us than scouting and being in some write up. You don't know what goes in in our locker rooms and the friends we will have forever regardless if we play D1, DIII or club.. our teammmates don't give a F$£^ you should relax and just watch the games.

Well then respect that this is, essentially, 99.9% a parents board, where you will come across people with a very wide array of backgrounds and understanding of the sport.

BTW, I'm sure your parents did way more than "just watch the games." Didn't they drive you, buy your equipment, make all of your arrangements for you, find good opportunities for you, and support you in every way possible for 10+ years? Bet they played a pretty **** big part in your getting the chance to have a PG year in 5 days.

And, if you think parents know nothing about your experience, many of us were elite athletes in our own day. The best predeterminer of a kid becoming an elite athlete is whether their parents were.

In the end your experience won't end up being all that much different from ours. But, you're too young and full of yourself to understand that.

Just like we were, when we were your age.

You'll see.

I'm guessing that PG you are berating is actually a dad having some fun, but you go ahead and yell at that mean ocean

It's an anonymous message board. Anybody could be anything. If we all turn into conspiracy theorists, no one would ever post. Where's the "fun" in that?

Rarely if ever do kids come on here. You see the dboard is the upside down world where adults act like children and the children play the game.

Also, it was pretty obvious from his statement and it's context it was an adult, but go ahead upside down guy

I appreciate your view sir but nothing is the same as when you or my dad played. Every period of our games is plastered on twitter or instagram, every final score has a write up by some critic who may or may not have ever played.
Do you know how many of us play through serious injuries every game, 15-18 year olds sucking down whatever we can to get through 3 periods so we have a shot at being seen... that's the reality of it all. Now some little 14 year olds are committing to college hockey..seriously, they are in for a surprise in the coming years because every shift of every game they play they have targets all over them!
So in closing, every top team in New England knows what this bozo board is and we read it often, yes parents have played a big role in getting us where we are but also created this crazy landscape hockey is today.
I hope you can also appreciate this view, as my dad does.

Thanks. I do appreciate your experience. It caused me to sit back for a moment to reflect. It doesn't sound like very much fun, to be honest. My son is 17, and he hasn't shared it. He is an elite athlete in multiple sports that probably could "get by" with less off ice work, but he still works his ass off to be in top physical shape and improve his skills. But he isn't taking "whatever...to get through 3 periods." I asked him , does he see teammates doing that, he says not that he sees, but that it doesn't mean it isn't going on. I would encourage you to be very careful about what you are putting into your body.

He feels pressure to perform, but more to continue to get premium minutes from coaches with inflated opinions of themselves, not like what you are describing. With all the exposure today, as you described, you don't really need to worry about "being seen." If you're good enough, they know. I know advisors get a bad rap, but honestly, the truly professional advisors are great at making sure of that.

I do agree with you on the "commit" thing. It's ridiculous. Even five years ago, it made sense. This is lunacy. So, we ignore it. He will get his shot, or he won't.

I don't agree with you about how things were in the past. It was much, much harder in our day to "be seen." In most cases, you got one shot. If it was a bad day, that was pretty much it. A good friend of mine was a pitcher in HS. He got appendicitis he day the scouts came to see him. They signed one of his teammates.

I hope this year leads you to where you are hoping to get with your game. And, PLEASE have fun. That will make this year a "win" for you either way.

Don't get me wrong, if it wasn't fun many of us wouldn't be playing anymore as we take a beating every practice, game, off season, etc..I still love it and hopefully always will no matter where I make it. I am in the same boat as your son, multi sport athlete expected to be great every shift of both sports and those expectations come from coaches,peers,teachers and yes, even parents.
We all play with pain, some of us are taped 7 days a week but pain also take something for the pain.
My dad says the same thing about being seen back in the day, your sick, you miss out. I dont know, I guess its just that everything is so tied to social media today that we feel like we get lost in the crowd if someone isn't talking about us.
For example, I'm 5' 11", First line center scored 14 goals with 18 assists last year but my school does not do twitter feeds for sports, and we do our own write ups on our website. Guess what 3 college scouts asked me at summer tournaments? Whats your twitter feed? Do you have Hudl? etc..I guess we will see how this all shakes out.

I love the fact that people are buying it that this is a kid

"So in closing, every top team in New England knows what this bozo board is and we read it often..."

Bozo Board? Get serious! But thanks for reading.

Kid or Dad, whoever it is has a point..this board is full of bozos who do a bunch of typing but hide behind anon. Their is vary rarely anything of substance here..we aren't doing anything to make the game better for our kids.

OK Patrick, how brave of you to come on here and shed your anonymity!

Remember a few years back they tried to make you add your email to a post...crickets..went back to anon and all the wisdom came back!

Nothing wrong with it being anonymous. Sure, 95% is by uninformed, delusional parents. But the 5% is unfiltered. Doesn't mean I agree with a particular POV, but it leaves that choice to me.

I offer positive advice all the time. I don't care if anyone heeds it or not. It's just out there for consumption. And I definitely say things I wouldn't say about programs if it could be brought back to my kid. It's a small community.

Agree with this post. Filter through all the thinly veiled grudges, and you can get a sense for what's what by reading this board. At least when it's active. Seems like there was more participation in the prior version(s).

Too funny... Definitely an adult. "critic", "So, in closing..."

Your point about U18 was made way up toward the top of the thread. I know you THINK your knowledge is superior, but it isn't.

We get it. You hate Prep, you think T1EHL walks on water. It is a very good league. It isn't the equivalent of top Prep. Any kid playing ISL Keller or the top NE preps outside of MA can more than hold his own in T1EHL - U15, U16, U18, whatever.

BA u18 lost to Northwood 8-1.

Man-oh-man, this guy is in over his head. I know, I know your kid is a second pairing Dman on a prep team and that equals B.F.D. so he wasn't recruited heavily and there is no $ in it for you so you justify your prep school payments with 'it's a great education' and 'the hockey is so much better....' We get it.

- "If all of the 4th line players were to go to the local T1EHL teams, those teams would be better." Let's be clear about this, no 4th line prep player is making a tier 1 team let alone getting meaningful minutes. A 4th line prep player would have a hard time breaking into a real D-1 or C.C. rotation for 'meaningful minutes.'

- "Now, they are playing meaningful minutes, against kids that make up the BULK of the USHL." A 4th line prep player would get eaten alive by USHL potential players...you can't even make a case for what you stated.

- "I'm not convinced I shouldn't be looking to pull him out of his senior year and have him play in the Midwest." Dad get over it. No USHL team is looking to add a high school senior who is currently playing prep hockey and is playing on the second pairing! Zero teams. They have the pick of most first pairing kids, some canadian kids, the state of MN....this puts your guy about in the top 500 Dmen around. Your team's top pair might not be worthy.

Let me guess, you don't see many games that are not on your boy's schedule. right?

Haha, I got a good laugh at your retorts. Thanks for that!

"no 4th line prep player is making a tier 1 team let alone getting meaningful minutes."

Google some of the D from last year's two local U16 T1EHL teams. They include, among others:

A kid from powerhouse Hanover High
A kid from powerhouse Needham High
A kid that got cut at BC High
A kid from Alaska
A kid from Australia

The Forwards include players with similar pedigrees, if not inferior. Do you REALLY think these mokes are better than the 4th line/3rd pair D from a Keller Div school? If you do, then you are completely undervaluing Prep hockey.

"A 4th line prep player would have a hard time breaking into a real D-1 or C.C. rotation for 'meaningful minutes.'"

C'mon, you can't believe that. In this era? People say all the time the difference between Prep and CC/Super 8 Public is depth. That gap has widened the past two years. Do you REALLY think 4th line/3rd pair D from a Keller Div school can't get meaningful minutes at any CC / MIAA D1 roster? If you do, then you are completely undervaluing Prep hockey.

"No USHL team is looking to add a high school senior who is currently playing prep hockey and is playing on the second pairing! Zero teams."

Well, I beg to differ, but it's your opinion versus mine. But, I didn't say USHL. I said Midwest. Which I did to include the NAHL teams that can get him USHL exposure. I'm fine with using Tier 2 as a stepping stone to Tier 1. I'm very aware of where my kid is in terms of his development. There's no shame in my kid being second pairing as a Freshman and Sophomore on a strong team behind established Juniors and Seniors.

But, you're 100% right on one point. My kid didn't get any money, but not for the reason you think. See, when it comes to ISL prep school teams, I have this problem. I make too much **** money. :)

Haha, I got a good laugh at your retorts. Thanks for that!

-- "Do you REALLY think these mokes are better than the 4th line/3rd pair D from a Keller Div school? If you do, then you are completely undervaluing Prep hockey."

Yes you are right about that. Go to the top-end summer tournaments and take a lookie-see at the helmets. Yup, good players come from EVERYWHERE. Hanover, Needham, BC High, Hingham.... Heck one of the most recruited defensemen a couple years ago came out of a public high school and had no problem playing against and with USHL and D-I commit kids. There is no magic to prep hockey. None, zero zilch.

-- "Do you REALLY think 4th line/3rd pair D from a Keller Div school can't get meaningful minutes at any CC / MIAA D1 roster?"

Oh I see what you did there by saying "ANY CC / MIAA D-I roster." Some rosters they would get minutes, yes. Every roster, no.

Just like pulling the old "out in midwest..." when everyone in hockey who refers to the Midwest is talking about the USHL and not the NAHL (which is everywhere in America almost) or the MnJHL (which too is only in the Midwest).

I too make too much money for a free ride but I've been at hockey long enough to know the landscape. Welcome.

AND

well said.

Nailed it!!!