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Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

R u defending status quo to be a D-BAG, or do you like it for economic reasons?
Which program do you own?
The delayed entry does nothing for the kids lives or the family’s sanity.
Definitely helps with the boy to man thing though.
What a surprise.

Question: how did we get here? Is it cyclical, ie. will it revert to normalcy?
No clue here, but interested in your take.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Anon
R u defending status quo to be a D-BAG, or do you like it for economic reasons?
Which program do you own?
The delayed entry does nothing for the kids lives or the family’s sanity.
Definitely helps with the boy to man thing though.
What a surprise.

Question: how did we get here? Is it cyclical, ie. will it revert to normalcy?
No clue here, but interested in your take.
Spot on. The current system does nothing but increase the likely hood a kid will become a raging alcoholic and a dropout. Junior hockey is not a positive atmosphere for 99% of young men. If the NCAA cared they would look out for the student athletes and require kids to enroll up to one year post graduation.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Anon
Anon
R u defending status quo to be a D-BAG, or do you like it for economic reasons?
Which program do you own?
The delayed entry does nothing for the kids lives or the family’s sanity.
Definitely helps with the boy to man thing though.
What a surprise.

Question: how did we get here? Is it cyclical, ie. will it revert to normalcy?
No clue here, but interested in your take.
Spot on. The current system does nothing but increase the likely hood a kid will become a raging alcoholic and a dropout. Junior hockey is not a positive atmosphere for 99% of young men. If the NCAA cared they would look out for the student athletes and require kids to enroll up to one year post graduation.
...So the schools can exploit them instead.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Anon
Anon
R u defending status quo to be a D-BAG, or do you like it for economic reasons?
Which program do you own?
The delayed entry does nothing for the kids lives or the family’s sanity.
Definitely helps with the boy to man thing though.
What a surprise.

Question: how did we get here? Is it cyclical, ie. will it revert to normalcy?
No clue here, but interested in your take.
Spot on. The current system does nothing but increase the likely hood a kid will become a raging alcoholic and a dropout. Junior hockey is not a positive atmosphere for 99% of young men. If the NCAA cared they would look out for the student athletes and require kids to enroll up to one year post graduation.
Ignorant statement. It's more like 99% of USHL players go on to D1 hockey which has one of the highest graduation rates of any sport.

If a kid fails it's because his parents failed him but don't let facts get in the way of whine.

And the NCAA doesn't care so we can move past that point.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Anon
Anon
R u defending status quo to be a D-BAG, or do you like it for economic reasons?
Which program do you own?
The delayed entry does nothing for the kids lives or the family’s sanity.
Definitely helps with the boy to man thing though.
What a surprise.

Question: how did we get here? Is it cyclical, ie. will it revert to normalcy?
No clue here, but interested in your take.
Spot on. The current system does nothing but increase the likely hood a kid will become a raging alcoholic and a dropout. Junior hockey is not a positive atmosphere for 99% of young men. If the NCAA cared they would look out for the student athletes and require kids to enroll up to one year post graduation.
It's amazing how ignorant you both are. If you had a child that actually experience the USHL and D1 hockey you would realize how well adjusted these young men are, more than any other sport such as Football & Basketball, even Baseball. These guys have to grow up, go live across the country, be responsible for many facets of their lives and learn to managed their time. This is why the NHL has such a great player reputation compared to Football or Basketball. My son is a top player in Hockey East while carrying a 3.6 GPA in Finance while his roommate (teammate)is a double major is doing the same. College Hockey has the highest graduation rate of all the major sports, but apparently they all must be raging alcoholics. Sorry your kid and yourself can't cut it. Go back to the Youth Hockey thread.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Anon
Anon
Anon
R u defending status quo to be a D-BAG, or do you like it for economic reasons?
Which program do you own?
The delayed entry does nothing for the kids lives or the family’s sanity.
Definitely helps with the boy to man thing though.
What a surprise.

Question: how did we get here? Is it cyclical, ie. will it revert to normalcy?
No clue here, but interested in your take.
Spot on. The current system does nothing but increase the likely hood a kid will become a raging alcoholic and a dropout. Junior hockey is not a positive atmosphere for 99% of young men. If the NCAA cared they would look out for the student athletes and require kids to enroll up to one year post graduation.
It's amazing how ignorant you both are. If you had a child that actually experience the USHL and D1 hockey you would realize how well adjusted these young men are, more than any other sport such as Football & Basketball, even Baseball. These guys have to grow up, go live across the country, be responsible for many facets of their lives and learn to managed their time. This is why the NHL has such a great player reputation compared to Football or Basketball. My son is a top player in Hockey East while carrying a 3.6 GPA in Finance while his roommate (teammate)is a double major is doing the same. College Hockey has the highest graduation rate of all the major sports, but apparently they all must be raging alcoholics. Sorry your kid and yourself can't cut it. Go back to the Youth Hockey thread.
I think the posted is discussing "juniors" as all encompassing. Of course the USHL is a different animal. Other than the USHL there are a lot of crappy junior leagues....a lot!

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

I'm defending it because it works if you use it for what it's intended for and you are realistic about your kids abilities. If your out there for three years then it's your fault. Nothing is prefect. NCAA overall is a highly flawed "cartel" that has a monopoly on so called "amateur" sports for the sole purpose of making billions on the back of unpaid labor. We are lucky they even have hockey because it's a money loser but they prop it up other sports including womens sports to avoid lawsuits. So where do you want to take this now, how do we dismantle the NCAA?

Junior hockey fills a void. HS hockey cannot prepair HS kids for college hockey. The gap in level of play is too great. Use it for what it's intended for and it works but if you go out there and then NCAA keeps pushing you out then you have to have the sense to move on because if you don't have leverage, they will leverage you which is a good life lesson.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
I'm defending it because it works if you use it for what it's intended for and you are realistic about your kids abilities. If your out there for three years then it's your fault. Nothing is prefect. NCAA overall is a highly flawed "cartel" that has a monopoly on so called "amateur" sports for the sole purpose of making billions on the back of unpaid labor. We are lucky they even have hockey because it's a money loser but they prop it up other sports including womens sports to avoid lawsuits. So where do you want to take this now, how do we dismantle the NCAA?

Junior hockey fills a void. HS hockey cannot prepair HS kids for college hockey. The gap in level of play is too great. Use it for what it's intended for and it works but if you go out there and then NCAA keeps pushing you out then you have to have the sense to move on because if you don't have leverage, they will leverage you which is a good life lesson.

HS cannot prepare kids for college hockey because the SYSTEM is broken. If NCAA hockey was say 90% true freshman (as it should be) then HS would prepare kids for college hockey. Instead you have 24 year old men playing college hockey so high school kids have to play 2-3 years of juniors. Put in an age limit and make it a college sport again and HS kids could go from HS to college like all other sports.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

You want the NCAA to put an age limit in? That's in no one's interest but yours but ok, good luck waiting for that to happen.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
You want the NCAA to put an age limit in? That's in no one's interest but yours but ok, good luck waiting for that to happen.
Division I athletes should be required to enroll in school one calendar year after high school graduation and then have five years to complete a typical four-year degree.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Which would make the average age of a D1 hockey team the same as it is today.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
Which would make the average age of a D1 hockey team the same as it is today.
No it wouldnt...you would have to enroll at the age of 19. Not entering college as a 21 year old.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Anon
anon
You want the NCAA to put an age limit in? That\'s in no one\'s interest but yours but ok, good luck waiting for that to happen.
Division I athletes should be required to enroll in school one calendar year after high school graduation and then have five years to complete a typical four-year degree.
Again you show your ignorance, the vast majority of players are taking classes while they are playing Juniors, especially in the USHL. My kid went in at 19, but already had completed nearly 4 classes before he began his Freshman fall semester.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Anon
anon
You want the NCAA to put an age limit in? That\'s in no one\'s interest but yours but ok, good luck waiting for that to happen.
Division I athletes should be required to enroll in school one calendar year after high school graduation and then have five years to complete a typical four-year degree.
i get it. your kid is not good enough so you want to change the rules to suit you. what next mandatory playing time. AND you are showing your... ncaa already has a rule you have 5 years to compete 4 years athletically a/k/a red shirt year

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Tony Mazz
I don't give a rats ass about the age my son enters college - as long as he's properly prepared to go and do well. Shove that up your tail pipe and smoke it!!!!!!!!!!!
Well apparently he isn't prepared properly to play hockey?

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

CM HS has a player born in 99'
Pope Francis HS has 6 kids born in 00'

Kids are doing the 'junior' and prep thing and the large majority at every level including ACHA Club ar 20-21 year old freshman. Such a waste. It is in fact the only NCAA sport that encourages (or is doing nothing to stop it) kids to enter college 2-3 years after HS. Name another sport that does it? The 'true' freshman is definitely an anomoly. 'Junior' programs sit back, laugh, and rake in the money while they place kids at ACHA U Tampa.


Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

College football avg age is older than hockey by about a year.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Hockey is the only sport that has 21-year-old freshmen and not surprisingly, a lower graduation rate than football and basketball. I wonder if those two are related.:thinking_face:

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

PG
Hockey is the only sport that has 21-year-old freshmen and not surprisingly, a lower graduation rate than football and basketball. I wonder if those two are related.:thinking_face:
Don't know where your getting your info, but College Hockey has one of the highest graduation rates.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Somone call a wambulance. The HS hockey parents club is here to protest the fact that there is no D1 hockey participation slot for their bender. All sports have older kids. Football is at least a year older than hockey and yes, hockey has one of the highest grad rates but don't let facts get in the way of your whine's. Just because there isn't a junior football league doesn't mean they don't repeat, do PG, junior college and redshirt. That's what makes USHL so good is you have a place where you know your kid will develop. So what if he doesn't love it. My kid loved the hockey. Billet was OK. Travel sucked. Missed home a lot but he wouldn't trade it knowing what it did for him. Doesnt' get easier in college. Ask all the kids who did everything they could to getto D1 and then they don't play. They have the same comittments. Practice, lifts, film travel. But they don't play. Think they love it? Whomever promised your kid a place to play at every age level where he will love it lied to you. Or maybe that was you lying to your kid.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

The problem isn’t at the junior level. That’s the only level that works. It’s the youth level that’s the problem. Parents around here are conditioned to a system where there are AAA elite teams on every street corner and all they have to do is write a check. Junior hockey is the only level where there is real Tier 1-2-3 and it’s merit based. You can’t buy your kid a spot on a tier 1 team.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Not a surprise that you missed the point. Yes the system is set up a certain way and players and their families know that in order to play at the higher level you will need to play juniors. Again.. Coaches demand it and junior teams are set up as businesses to make money. Stop with the commitment BS.. Obviously the best kids shake out whether they were all starting at 19 or 21 and obviously the kids who are the most committed both mentally and physically will do whatever is needed in order to continue to play in college. That being said IT IS STILL A BROKEN SYSTEM.. it is set up to work for the junior hockey business and it gets sold to sucker parents as DEVELOPMENT..You wouldn't need to develop 3 extra years if everyone started as 19 years olds.. As stated numerous times a necessary evil.. but again the kool aid people will keep defending it and nothing will change! Sorry that concept is so complicated!

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I


Everyone reaches the point where your told your not good enough anymore. For most that's HS. Some college. Even fewer at the pro level. Sorry your kid has reached that point. It's not the systems fault. There is no "system" that got together some time ago to conspire against you in order to make junior hockey teams money. Who is this "system" anyway? College coaches? Ok and so why would they do this? Do they profit? Do they even know who the owners are? Do you really think they all got together to conspire to help junior team owners and prop up this level of hockey?

They want better players. In many cases that means older, stronger, faster and Juniors fills that need. And no I'm not talking about all juniors. There is a lot of tier 3 crap out there. I'm talking about the sanctioned leagues which really is "the system". NCAA wants to be a feeder for pro hockey. They want to exploit their advantage over major junior by giving players more time to develop. Taking kids right out of HS doesn't work. HS kids are not ready as you can see even now when kids go right from hs to D1. For every disgruntled parent whose kid is washing out there are some that this "system" saved. Late bloomers physicially who hit their peak at 21-24 and then went to the NHL. It's those kids who the "system" wants to support. It designed to be exclusive, not inclusive.

I'm not an apologist for the system you despise but I appreciate what they are doing. And by the fact that those it is weeding out are mad about it means they are on the right track.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

The junior hockey "system" is only broken if you don't like the "system." It's working fine for us.

My oldest is graduating this year. His college acceptances and academic scholarship money is rolling in. Like many of his non-athlete friends, he is looking forward to a gap year. But, instead of backpacking Europe or joining the Peace Corps, he is looking forward to being able to focus just on hockey for a year. After one year, we will re-evaluate whether he has the college opportunity he was looking for, or if a second year of Junior (assumed to be at the next rung on the ladder) will benefit him further.

And, I am 100% fine with that. He has been balancing academics and hockey since 4th grade. I can still remember him having to do homework at NESC when he was 10 and at Bertucci's in Andover when he was 13 to get it all done. I remember being in Lake Placid when he was 12 and explaining to him that he couldn't join his teammates to go watch ski jumping because he had a lab report to write. He is much better at time management than any of his peers, and way better than I was at his age. He's had no choice. That's a lot of pressure on a teenager, on top of managing his social interactions, fulfilling his commitments at home, working part-time in the summer, community service, etc etc.

But, we are in control. Not the schools, not the Junior teams. Playing college hockey is not an entitlement. It has to be earned. It requires sacrifice. He can always choose to get off the treadmill. College is paid for. By me, by our putting money aside, the way it should be. My kids' attending college isn't dependent on their getting a D-I athletic scholarship. And, in fact, his academic scholarships are averaging more than athletes get already. this is the point most hockey parents are clueless about.

Scholarship athletes are professional, revenue producing assets. Not amateur student athletes. If you aren't familiar with O'Bannon v. NCAA, read about it.

If he wants to be a 20 year old Freshman, I am 100% supportive. It is his choice, no one else's.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

So typical of anyone on this board with whom you disagree it comes down to "your kid isn't good enough". Well sorry to disappoint you my kid was good enough and played that level and continues to play in college. He was also very tough mentally and physically. Obviously being a successful player is multi tiered. It is NOT just about talent. It is talent combined with mental toughness, competitiveness, drive, passion, emotional stability, positive attitude and a host of other intangibles. They get weeded out at almost all levels in college because they either rise or fall to the pressure athletically or academically.
The majority of Division 1 players will not be playing in the NHL but now according to you that is the reason to set up the junior system... and it is a system--(you know a set of things working together or a set of principles according to which something is done) so that it can be a feeder program to the NHL. Even if that might produce results for some of the athletes the problem is it is trickling down to Division 3 hockey where the majority of rosters are littered with age outs.
Again people like you will never see it logically because you own all of your kids successes and put down others or probably benefit financially.
Either way there is NO doubt that this system is broken for the vast majority of college hockey players. It is really too bad big egos and big money will get in the way of a fix.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

So still not sure then what your beef is. You say juniors is necessary but at the same time it's broken, why? Because people make money? Because it's merit based? You said the system conspires to make profits for junior owners but provide no facts to prove that out. Now you shift to state that it's the unintened consequence of impacting D3 but again, why is that a bad thing? Kids pursuing D1 and don't make it will logically jump to D3 and push other kids out. So what? It's competition. If you don't want to compete for a spot, then don't.

I don't own my kids successes and I don't make my money off hockey. I have one kid playing D1, one playing college club and one stopped playing after HS. The higher up you go the tougher the competition. I appreciate it for what it is and don't expect the system to coddle to anyone, even my kids.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

It is understandable to a certain degree to go through the pain of junior hockey if your ability and interest is to play D-1 hockey or beyond and you are able to play in a league that doesn't charge. But to delay your life a couple years, pay through the nose just to hopefully play D-3 hockey you need to get the kid's head examined. Most hockey kids who are two or three sport athletes would be wise to perhaps choose another sport.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Just keeping the dream alive. All that time spent just so you can play at some crappy rink in front of 65 'fans' is a colossal waste of everyone's time & money.

Love one of the local programs which boasts each of their Junior players 'makes a college team' - without saying that includes ACHA / Club Hockey. Look, if you're a D-1 high school player who gets ice time and are willing to do (God forbid) 2 years of Junior hockey you can play D-3 hockey. And if you are a D-1 high school player who gets ice time you can play on a Club Team without wasting a minute of anyone's time.

DPeter Pan needs to shed his wings!

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
Just keeping the dream alive. All that time spent just so you can play at some crappy rink in front of 65 'fans' is a colossal waste of everyone's time & money.

Love one of the local programs which boasts each of their Junior players 'makes a college team' - without saying that includes ACHA / Club Hockey. Look, if you're a D-1 high school player who gets ice time and are willing to do (God forbid) 2 years of Junior hockey you can play D-3 hockey. And if you are a D-1 high school player who gets ice time you can play on a Club Team without wasting a minute of anyone's time.

DPeter Pan needs to shed his wings!
If you are a D-I high school player who gets ice time. odds are you can't even play USPHL Premier, EHL, NCDC or NAHL. And you have even less of a chance of playing D-III NCAA hockey.

These teams are drawing from a global pool. You clearly have no idea how hard it is to make a good D-III team.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Anon
anon
Just keeping the dream alive. All that time spent just so you can play at some crappy rink in front of 65 'fans' is a colossal waste of everyone's time & money.

Love one of the local programs which boasts each of their Junior players 'makes a college team' - without saying that includes ACHA / Club Hockey. Look, if you're a D-1 high school player who gets ice time and are willing to do (God forbid) 2 years of Junior hockey you can play D-3 hockey. And if you are a D-1 high school player who gets ice time you can play on a Club Team without wasting a minute of anyone's time.

DPeter Pan needs to shed his wings!
If you are a D-I high school player who gets ice time. odds are you can't even play USPHL Premier, EHL, NCDC or NAHL. And you have even less of a chance of playing D-III NCAA hockey.

These teams are drawing from a global pool. You clearly have no idea how hard it is to make a good D-III team.
I'm not sure what you know but I know what I've seen from my kid's D-1 high school team from 4-5 years ago. Let's see one is playing hockey east, 6 in d-3, two went USHL, one went juniors in Canada now D-3, local USPHL teams were courting 3 kids from the team and none went that route...and 4-5 went ACHA so yeah, I "clearly have no idea how hard it is to make a good D-III team." :yum:

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
Anon
anon
Just keeping the dream alive. All that time spent just so you can play at some crappy rink in front of 65 \'fans\' is a colossal waste of everyone\'s time & money.

Love one of the local programs which boasts each of their Junior players \'makes a college team\' - without saying that includes ACHA / Club Hockey. Look, if you\'re a D-1 high school player who gets ice time and are willing to do (God forbid) 2 years of Junior hockey you can play D-3 hockey. And if you are a D-1 high school player who gets ice time you can play on a Club Team without wasting a minute of anyone\'s time.

DPeter Pan needs to shed his wings!
If you are a D-I high school player who gets ice time. odds are you can\'t even play USPHL Premier, EHL, NCDC or NAHL. And you have even less of a chance of playing D-III NCAA hockey.

These teams are drawing from a global pool. You clearly have no idea how hard it is to make a good D-III team.
I'm not sure what you know but I know what I've seen from my kid's D-1 high school team from 4-5 years ago. Let's see one is playing hockey east, 6 in d-3, two went USHL, one went juniors in Canada now D-3, local USPHL teams were courting 3 kids from the team and none went that route...and 4-5 went ACHA so yeah, I "clearly have no idea how hard it is to make a good D-III team." :yum:
The HS landscape COMPLETELY changed in the last 4 - 5 years. 4 - 5 year ago MC was in their four-in-four years run. Publics were complaining that the privates needed their own Super 8, because the decline was already upon them and they couldn't compete. Now, the gap has closed - and not because the Publics caught back up.

Tier I and Tier II Juniors and D-I and D-III college landscapes has changed as well. Far more international players competing for spots. 4 - 5 years ago only the super elite were getting commitments before they had even completed a full HS season. BNow, it's widespread and therefore meaningless.

So, thanks for the history lesson, but it's ancient history at this stage.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
It is understandable to a certain degree to go through the pain of junior hockey if your ability and interest is to play D-1 hockey or beyond and you are able to play in a league that doesn't charge. But to delay your life a couple years, pay through the nose just to hopefully play D-3 hockey you need to get the kid's head examined. Most hockey kids who are two or three sport athletes would be wise to perhaps choose another sport.
Thank you for deciding for kids you don't even know how they should spend their time. I mean, what are these kids thinking? Of COURSE you know better how they should plan their lives.

Oh, BTW you don't "pay through the nose" to play NCDC or NAHL. Which is where most of the D-III players come from. It's a long shot that someone goes from Tier III pay-to-play to a decent D-III program.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't go play, if that's what they want to do.

Oh, that's right, you've already decided they should get their "head examined"

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

I think what gets parents upset and leads to the "system is broken" is the plethora of Tier-III programs in New England and the let down at 21 when their players moves onto to a club program or beer league. Right or wrong, Tier-III programs are selling a dream to the players & parents that almost never materializes and rather than looking in the mirror, they blame a "broken" system.

The way I see it, colleges need money to field teams, boosters want success on the ice and to see players matriculate to professional hockey, NHL loves the current system because they don't need to project what a player will become, they are already getting a fairly mature player at 23-25 years old. In addition to the less risk associated with signings, because these players are entering the league older, the teams are getting most of their prime career years on the cheap.

If the money being generated by the system helps keep college teams viable and maybe even adds a few more teams, I'm all for it.

BTW, since the majority of kids heading to D-1 are coming from the USHL and NTDP, who exactly is getting rich off the system? The only folks making real bank off the current system are the Tier-III programs and again, look in the mirror for who to blame on that. That's not to say that USHL owners aren't turning a profit but it's coming primarily from ticket sales and ad revenue not the parents check book.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Bingo. If your paying for the crap bag stuff around here thinking its going to lead to D3 then you only have yourself to blame, not the owners.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
I think what gets parents upset and leads to the "system is broken" is the plethora of Tier-III programs in New England and the let down at 21 when their players moves onto to a club program or beer league. Right or wrong, Tier-III programs are selling a dream to the players & parents that almost never materializes and rather than looking in the mirror, they blame a "broken" system.

The way I see it, colleges need money to field teams, boosters want success on the ice and to see players matriculate to professional hockey, NHL loves the current system because they don't need to project what a player will become, they are already getting a fairly mature player at 23-25 years old. In addition to the less risk associated with signings, because these players are entering the league older, the teams are getting most of their prime career years on the cheap.

If the money being generated by the system helps keep college teams viable and maybe even adds a few more teams, I'm all for it.

BTW, since the majority of kids heading to D-1 are coming from the USHL and NTDP, who exactly is getting rich off the system? The only folks making real bank off the current system are the Tier-III programs and again, look in the mirror for who to blame on that. That's not to say that USHL owners aren't turning a profit but it's coming primarily from ticket sales and ad revenue not the parents check book.
Stop it. you're making sense. Think that's against the admin rules.

Couple of reactions.

I think what gets parents upset is having to telling their kid "No." What they should be saying is, "I'm not paying for another year of Tier III Juniors. if you want to play, you have to earn the money." Which they could do working hockey camps. But, since it's available, the kids want to play. On Mommy and Daddy's dime. Let's face it, parents can just say no. It's easier to blame "the system."

Lot of 1998-1999 players with no realistic reason to feel they have a future in the sport, and they are still playing low level Tier III, still contacting schools. I'm fine with kids continuing to play, but be realistic about where it's headed.

I actually had a conversation with one set of parents who were thrilled their 20 year old decided to play another year of Tier III, because it meant one more year before they had to pay for college. And, this kid isn't going to college.

Tier III Juniors outside of NE is a FAR worse **** show than in this area. The teams here are reasonably stable, comparatively speaking. Tier III teams in a lot of the rest of the company are owned by scam artists, if not criminals. Read "The Death Pool" on The Junior Hockey News. The owner of TJHN needs to get laid more consistently, but it's amazing what is going on out there.

I don't know that Tier III programs are making "real bank." $250K - $300K minus coaches, admin, ice, transportation, rent, league fees etc etc etc. doesn't leave THAT much profit.

I hear a lot of USHL teams draw fans by offering cheap beer. Drawing fans drives the ad revenue. So, they're not really selling hockey, they're selling beer. The ticket is a cover charge.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Oh I get it now.. So the NHL likes the SYSTEM.. Statistically less than 30% of Division 1 players ever make the NHL. Is the NHL funding these colleges or coaches?? Nope but they let the D1 kids hang onto their dream a little longer with promises of potential NHL spots. The bigger question which no one wants to tackle is if this is such a great process then why do NONE of the other NCAA sports operate in this way. I don't expect a thoughtful analysis. I am sure someone will bring up a 27 year old rugby player as a comparison.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Wow your a special kind of stupid. Either that or a flaming liberal where everyone should get everything their are promised or everyone should be equal.

Statistically less than 30% play in the NHL is selling a dream? If it's 30% that's awesome if true. No one promised my kid he's going to the NHL by playing D1. If he does, great. If not, he played college hockey four years and got a degree. So playing D1 hockey is nothing more than hanging on to an NHL dream? Like I said, your a special kind of stupid.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
Oh I get it now.. So the NHL likes the SYSTEM.. Statistically less than 30% of Division 1 players ever make the NHL. Is the NHL funding these colleges or coaches?? Nope but they let the D1 kids hang onto their dream a little longer with promises of potential NHL spots. The bigger question which no one wants to tackle is if this is such a great process then why do NONE of the other NCAA sports operate in this way. I don't expect a thoughtful analysis. I am sure someone will bring up a 27 year old rugby player as a comparison.
30% of D-1 players play in the NHL???? There's approximately 1500 players in D-1 this year. So 450 of them will be in the NHL next year?

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
Oh I get it now.. So the NHL likes the SYSTEM.. Statistically less than 30% of Division 1 players ever make the NHL. Is the NHL funding these colleges or coaches?? Nope but they let the D1 kids hang onto their dream a little longer with promises of potential NHL spots. The bigger question which no one wants to tackle is if this is such a great process then why do NONE of the other NCAA sports operate in this way. I don't expect a thoughtful analysis. I am sure someone will bring up a 27 year old rugby player as a comparison.
In fact, yes the NHL and NHLPA donate money to the NCAA for various activities. You also skipped over the part of the boosters, who are extremely important to the viability of programs which also ties into the NHL. The more high profile a program becomes, through league titles, tournament appearances and yes, kids going to "the show" the more generous the alumni become.

Why don't more sports do it? Well in certain respects they do, as of now all the other major sports have rules around age limits for draft eligibility.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
Oh I get it now.. So the NHL likes the SYSTEM.. Statistically less than 30% of Division 1 players ever make the NHL. Is the NHL funding these colleges or coaches?? Nope but they let the D1 kids hang onto their dream a little longer with promises of potential NHL spots. The bigger question which no one wants to tackle is if this is such a great process then why do NONE of the other NCAA sports operate in this way. I don't expect a thoughtful analysis. I am sure someone will bring up a 27 year old rugby player as a comparison.
D1 hockey has 30% going NHL? D1 hockey is simply stringing kids along keeping the NHL dream alive? Kids in other sports are not repeating, red shirting etc? And when kids do, they are never being told no we don't have a spot for you? This only happens in hockey?

You can't have a D1 kid. There is no way.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

I don't have a D1 kid because I can't see the insanity of the this process???? Really, as I said on a previous post can't fix stupid.. D

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

You cant have a D1 kid cause you don't understand the process. So much of what you said is BS and anyone who has kids who have gone through it know your full of it.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Nope.. wrong again!! Understand the Process but don't agree with the process.. what is so hard to understand??
Honestly?? I really don't get why anyone who has gone through this when honestly looking at the big picture would continue to defend it. That leads me to believe maybe It is YOU who doesn't really get it.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
Nope.. wrong again!! Understand the Process but don't agree with the process.. what is so hard to understand??
Honestly?? I really don't get why anyone who has gone through this when honestly looking at the big picture would continue to defend it. That leads me to believe maybe It is YOU who doesn't really get it.
Why anyone with an elite player would rail against this system is beyond me. That's who it's designed for. USHL was great preparation for Hockey East. There is no substitute or alternative for it. One year out there and then fully prepared for NCAA. Now if your only an elite player in the mind of a disgruntled dad who hates the system because it expiosed their kid as not being an elite player, well then I can't help you.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
I don't have a D1 kid because I can't see the insanity of the this process???? Really, as I said on a previous post can't fix stupid.. D
You don't have a D1 kid, because he isn't D1 caliber. I don't know what all the confusion is, my kid was a 19 year-old Freshman playing D1.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

But Paul, your kid is really good.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

I also think the system is broken from a US perspective and in comparing the sport to other sports but much of what is 'wrong' is fueling a healthy junior system in Canada & in the Midwest. These teams are the closest kids will get to playing the sport professionally and these teams, leagues and towns are loved elsewhere. This is part of the 'system' that needs repair but there is a lot that will forever favor 21 year old hockey freshmen because the healthy junior leagues eat it up.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

You know Canadian junior has nothing to do with your NCAA system, right? Kids lose eligibility? You do know that don’t you?

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Yes obviously, but the system of a robust junior league that feeds pro hockey is alive north of the boarder.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

and thats relevant to this discussion how? another dope

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Being the idiot bully you try to be, shouldn’t you be Tweeting incoherent stuff like your bully hero Comrade Trump?

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

The point I think was that there is a deeply rooted, profitable junior system and keeps kids until they’re 20. Hope Bully-boy gets it

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Wow, if your stupid that disqualifies you from claiming your being bullied. Major Junior has nothig to do with NCAA. If you choose Major Junior, you are making a conscious decision to not play college hockey. It all but disqualifies you from NCAA unless your willing to pay a significant price. So the system your keep referring to cannot by definition include Canadian Junior.

Yes the CHA has a long standing position in Canadian hockey. It's a much bigger and much more lucritive than the USHL. But so what? Has nothing to do with this topic.

Thanks for joining the discussion though.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

" Major Junior has nothig (sic) to do with NCAA "

I'll go slower for you. See the hockey farm system has a long history and very deep roots. Most adults in the room will say these deep roots can be trace back to their origins to.....Canada! And you will see there is money involved in this farm system both in Canada and....(drum roll please) The US of A !!!! See this old system, for those of you new to this sport, was built many years ago and really despite the Canadian Major Juniors' leagues insisting they support college educations by giving their players 'free tuition' to Canadian schools they really don't care. Check out how much it costs for a Canadian to go to college and check out how many players take the leagues up on their offer and you'll see it's not a big percentage. So you see this is the farm system for pro hockey, show-up, stay until you're 20, fill the stands, and either turn pro or a college will take you.

Guess what developed in the US of A? No really, guess. Another drum roll! A system that is well funded for Tier 1 Juniors of "Show-up, stay until you're 20, fill the stands, and either turn pro or a college will take you."

Now the challenged in the room will say, "Hold on a minute! But they're Canucks and I'm a God Fearing, MAGA hat wearing, US Vet, stand for the national anthem American GOT-Darn-IT!!! How on earth did all this happen in my country?" Welllllll, look to the north, look to history, look to where the bread is getting buttered, look who helps to fund this well developed farm system and then ask yourself - Does Major Junior has nothig (sic) to do with the NCAA?

O.K., you're dismissed.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
" Major Junior has nothig (sic) to do with NCAA "

I'll go slower for you. See the hockey farm system has a long history and very deep roots. Most adults in the room will say these deep roots can be trace back to their origins to.....Canada! And you will see there is money involved in this farm system both in Canada and....(drum roll please) The US of A !!!! See this old system, for those of you new to this sport, was built many years ago and really despite the Canadian Major Juniors' leagues insisting they support college educations by giving their players 'free tuition' to Canadian schools they really don't care. Check out how much it costs for a Canadian to go to college and check out how many players take the leagues up on their offer and you'll see it's not a big percentage. So you see this is the farm system for pro hockey, show-up, stay until you're 20, fill the stands, and either turn pro or a college will take you.

Guess what developed in the US of A? No really, guess. Another drum roll! A system that is well funded for Tier 1 Juniors of "Show-up, stay until you're 20, fill the stands, and either turn pro or a college will take you."

Now the challenged in the room will say, "Hold on a minute! But they're Canucks and I'm a God Fearing, MAGA hat wearing, US Vet, stand for the national anthem American GOT-Darn-IT!!! How on earth did all this happen in my country?" Welllllll, look to the north, look to history, look to where the bread is getting buttered, look who helps to fund this well developed farm system and then ask yourself - Does Major Junior has nothig (sic) to do with the NCAA?

O.K., you're dismissed.
At the end of the day, your kid wasn't good enough to play D1, so please stop wasting everyone's time and stop whining, go back to the kiddie board. This is a college thread, not wannabe college thread.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

It's the NCAA. They exist to support colleges, not student athletes. They don't care about your kid. They will never change or implement a rule simply because it's in the best interest of the students.

They are a business that is about growing revenues for themselves and their members. If they could drop all sports but football and basketball they would but they can't. The other sports help with the smokescreen that they are really about amateur collegiate athletics and it keeps them clear of Title IX lawsuits.

They count and a transient workforce that is in their system for short periods of time and so the interest of unionizing and collective bargaining never gets any traction. See Northwestern football lawsuit. Whenever anything gets any traction they throw some crumbs to the workers (stipends) to silence them and then they are gone. The trouble-makers graduate and move on. A new workforce comes in and any movement has to start all over again.

Hockey is very costly but important to the schools who have a history with it. Some schools attract enough attendance to make some money but many do not. They make money on alumni. When alumni come back to campus with checkbooks in hand there needs to be things going on. Athletics are part of it. It’s well documented that small schools that dropped football to save money lost even more because alumni stopped coming back to campus. Hockey in many of these schools has a trickle down because students (full paying non athletes) want to go to schools with things going on. Drop sports and overall the school becomes less attractive to the general student body that pays the bills.

So to maximize revenue (direct and indirect) they need a product that is interesting. They set out on a path to make NCAA a feeder for NHL. Come sure future NHL players is the draw. So to pull kids from other leagues namely the CHL, they exploit the age limit issue of the CHL. The appeal if give yourself more time to develop. Why age out at 20 and have to turn pro if you not ready. They are also going hard after Euro’s. 35% of D1 players are now imports.

So the system is working and working beautifully for what it’s focused on achieving. NCAA players in the NHL is at an all time high and growing. They are televising more NCAA games in Canada. CHL is reeling a bit from labor lawsuits, tax schemes from owners, sketchy promises of tuition payments etc. So if you’re a parent of a Canadian kid who used to think CHL was the only path to the NHL, it’s no longer the case.

So the system isn’t going to change. It’s working well for those that its designed to work for. Your kid is not the priority. You work the system as best you can or tap out. If you tap out, there is another to take your place.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
" Major Junior has nothig (sic) to do with NCAA "

I'll go slower for you. See the hockey farm system has a long history and very deep roots. Most adults in the room will say these deep roots can be trace back to their origins to.....Canada! And you will see there is money involved in this farm system both in Canada and....(drum roll please) The US of A !!!! See this old system, for those of you new to this sport, was built many years ago and really despite the Canadian Major Juniors' leagues insisting they support college educations by giving their players 'free tuition' to Canadian schools they really don't care. Check out how much it costs for a Canadian to go to college and check out how many players take the leagues up on their offer and you'll see it's not a big percentage. So you see this is the farm system for pro hockey, show-up, stay until you're 20, fill the stands, and either turn pro or a college will take you.

Guess what developed in the US of A? No really, guess. Another drum roll! A system that is well funded for Tier 1 Juniors of "Show-up, stay until you're 20, fill the stands, and either turn pro or a college will take you."

Now the challenged in the room will say, "Hold on a minute! But they're Canucks and I'm a God Fearing, MAGA hat wearing, US Vet, stand for the national anthem American GOT-Darn-IT!!! How on earth did all this happen in my country?" Welllllll, look to the north, look to history, look to where the bread is getting buttered, look who helps to fund this well developed farm system and then ask yourself - Does Major Junior has nothig (sic) to do with the NCAA?

O.K., you're dismissed.
WTF are you babbling about? We know the origins of junior hockey. The topic is how things work today with respect to the path to ncaa hockey. Put the bottle down and try to keep up.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
" Major Junior has nothig (sic) to do with NCAA "

I'll go slower for you. See the hockey farm system has a long history and very deep roots. Most adults in the room will say these deep roots can be trace back to their origins to.....Canada! And you will see there is money involved in this farm system both in Canada and....(drum roll please) The US of A !!!! See this old system, for those of you new to this sport, was built many years ago and really despite the Canadian Major Juniors' leagues insisting they support college educations by giving their players 'free tuition' to Canadian schools they really don't care. Check out how much it costs for a Canadian to go to college and check out how many players take the leagues up on their offer and you'll see it's not a big percentage. So you see this is the farm system for pro hockey, show-up, stay until you're 20, fill the stands, and either turn pro or a college will take you.

Guess what developed in the US of A? No really, guess. Another drum roll! A system that is well funded for Tier 1 Juniors of "Show-up, stay until you're 20, fill the stands, and either turn pro or a college will take you."

Now the challenged in the room will say, "Hold on a minute! But they're Canucks and I'm a God Fearing, MAGA hat wearing, US Vet, stand for the national anthem American GOT-Darn-IT!!! How on earth did all this happen in my country?" Welllllll, look to the north, look to history, look to where the bread is getting buttered, look who helps to fund this well developed farm system and then ask yourself - Does Major Junior has nothig (sic) to do with the NCAA?

O.K., you're dismissed.
I like stories!

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Looks like the idiot bully got owned. Major Junior has nothig ! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: :kissing_smiling_eyes: :stuck_out_tongue:

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

True that. The newer question is with so many kids getting just partial scholarship, why would a Canadian kid even choose to come to the states (unless it was a top 20 or so U.S. school) to pay what could be $2,000 - $6,000 per year in Canada?

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
Looks like the idiot bully got owned. Major Junior has nothig ! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: :kissing_smiling_eyes: :stuck_out_tongue:
If you play OHL/QMJHL you cant play NCAA though.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
Looks like the idiot bully got owned. Major Junior has nothig ! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: :kissing_smiling_eyes: :stuck_out_tongue:
Sorry wingnut but I wrote that post. You can't seem to keep up with the conversation. The first is on how the NCAA/Junior Hockey system in the US is forcing 21 year old freshmen and propping up USHL. CHL has nothing to do with it.

Now the NCAA in its goal to be the leading path to NHL. That path is to pull in elite players from Canada and Europe/Russia. Still has nothing to do with CHL other than they want kids to choose NCAA over that.

Now tell us another story about the culture of junior hockey in Canada please!!!!

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Dude, put down the keyboard. We've all had enough of you being able to type but unable to read.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

you forgot your witty emoji's

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

anon
you forgot your witty emoji's
:stuck_out_tongue: :cat:
:banana: :melon: :melon:

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

If you capped the age of incoming hockey freshman at a one year gap post graduate all that would happen is the junior leagues would go younger. Instead of heading off to the USHL at 18 or 19 you would see players heading off to the league at 16 and 17. It is hard for a kid that age to live away from home. I'd prefer they be 18 when they do it. Play hockey, take a college credit class or two while you do it, and take some time to mature. Truth is, hockey or not, I'm not sure I want to send a kid straight to college right out of high school these days anyway. Look at the first year college drop out rate. A kid will be much more prepared, hockey or not, after spending a year or two in juniors.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Anon
If you capped the age of incoming hockey freshman at a one year gap post graduate all that would happen is the junior leagues would go younger. Instead of heading off to the USHL at 18 or 19 you would see players heading off to the league at 16 and 17. It is hard for a kid that age to live away from home. I'd prefer they be 18 when they do it. Play hockey, take a college credit class or two while you do it, and take some time to mature. Truth is, hockey or not, I'm not sure I want to send a kid straight to college right out of high school these days anyway. Look at the first year college drop out rate. A kid will be much more prepared, hockey or not, after spending a year or two in juniors.
My kid was 17 went he headed to the USHl, 19 when he started at his Hockey East School. All of you are forgetting why college hockey/Juniors is set up this way in the first place? It makes College Hockey relevant to the NHL, the NHL has a hard on for NCAA players nowadays, because of their maturity, skill set, and knowing how to play a defensive game (something you don't see in the CHL). Remember, back before the 90's, College Hockey as mostly irrelevant, because most of these guys went from Prep/HS right to D1 hockey, and the vast majority of them weren't making it to the NHL. Look at the Olympic team from 1980, at most, the guys who made it to the NHL, they were only there for a cup of coffee. The current system give NCAA players a better chance to making it to the NHL. If that doesn't float your boat, then have your kid play club, there are plenty of them

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

Anon
Anon
If you capped the age of incoming hockey freshman at a one year gap post graduate all that would happen is the junior leagues would go younger. Instead of heading off to the USHL at 18 or 19 you would see players heading off to the league at 16 and 17. It is hard for a kid that age to live away from home. I\\\'d prefer they be 18 when they do it. Play hockey, take a college credit class or two while you do it, and take some time to mature. Truth is, hockey or not, I\\\'m not sure I want to send a kid straight to college right out of high school these days anyway. Look at the first year college drop out rate. A kid will be much more prepared, hockey or not, after spending a year or two in juniors.
My kid was 17 went he headed to the USHl, 19 when he started at his Hockey East School. All of you are forgetting why college hockey/Juniors is set up this way in the first place? It makes College Hockey relevant to the NHL, the NHL has a hard on for NCAA players nowadays, because of their maturity, skill set, and knowing how to play a defensive game (something you don\'t see in the CHL). Remember, back before the 90\'s, College Hockey as mostly irrelevant, because most of these guys went from Prep/HS right to D1 hockey, and the vast majority of them weren\'t making it to the NHL. Look at the Olympic team from 1980, at most, the guys who made it to the NHL, they were only there for a cup of coffee. The current system give NCAA players a better chance to making it to the NHL. If that doesn\'t float your boat, then have your kid play club, there are plenty of them
Gee it makes college hockey relevant to the NHL? Gee we didn’t know that. I guess we forgot even though it was said a number of times.

Re: 8% True Freshmen in D-I

All the hopes and dreams of college hockey within one year of graduating HS is never going to happen.


www.grandforksherald.com/sports/hockey/4569903-unds-recent-commits-give-window-recruiting-strategy