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Junior & College Hockey
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Junior and College Eligibility

To start, I believe we will see a return to some level of normalcy by September. But, if we don't, and if the 20/21 college season is materially disrupted, I would assume the NCAA will grant an additional year of eligibility, as they did with Spring sports.

THAT means some seniors that were supposed to graduate in May 2021 will play in 21/22. The 99s that have committed for 20/21 won't play their first season until 21/22.

So, the age outs from the 20/21 season (2000s) won't have anywhere to play.

Do they, at least for a few years, increase eligibility for junior by a year?

Yeah, I know, 22 year old Freshmen, etc. etc. Just curious to hear opinions.

Re: Junior and College Eligibility

Anon
To start, I believe we will see a return to some level of normalcy by September. But, if we don't, and if the 20/21 college season is materially disrupted, I would assume the NCAA will grant an additional year of eligibility, as they did with Spring sports.

THAT means some seniors that were supposed to graduate in May 2021 will play in 21/22. The 99s that have committed for 20/21 won't play their first season until 21/22.

So, the age outs from the 20/21 season (2000s) won't have anywhere to play.

Do they, at least for a few years, increase eligibility for junior by a year?

Yeah, I know, 22 year old Freshmen, etc. etc. Just curious to hear opinions.

I'll take a shot at this one. First, what the NCAA did this spring was a nice gesture and knew that, in reality, it wasn't going to work, even with offering expanded rosters for spring sports. Essentially every coach I heard or read a statement from said "Thanks but No Thanks" to the added year. With that as a back drop, I would anticipate the NCAA to do exactly the opposite for Fall/Winter teams if there is a continued disruption and simply say "No soup for you."

A decision on winter sports wouldn't likely come before September so those incoming players are already on campus, enrolled in the school, etc. so no impact on the makeup of the 20/21 team. I suppose you could make an argument on the 21/22 incoming class being delayed but no coach is going to tell a prospect, I'm pushing you back another year or "go sit on the sofa and play beer league for a year since you're too old for Juniors." AD's and school presidents have already said they aren't going to expand their budgets to cover the additional roster openings, scholarships, etc for lower cost sports like baseball, doubt they'll do it for hockey.

Re: Junior and College Eligibility

If things are so bad in Septamber that campuses are not open and sports are not played then eligibility will be the least of anyone's worries. If football is not played, there will be no more college hockey or there will be a huge contraction because athletic funding will dry up.

Re: Junior and College Eligibility

anon
If things are so bad in Septamber that campuses are not open and sports are not played then eligibility will be the least of anyone's worries. If football is not played, there will be no more college hockey or there will be a huge contraction because athletic funding will dry up.
Wait, what?

Big colleges have big endowments. Those endowments spin off cash. Enough cash to sustain a single season of no football. Womens' fencing may be in trouble, but college hockey at BC, or Michigan, or Notre Dame will be just fine.

Small colleges don't have football. At least not football that anybody goes to see. Do you REALLY think Endicott or Babson or Bowdoin hockey is funded by football?

Re: Junior and College Eligibility

Anon
anon
If things are so bad in Septamber that campuses are not open and sports are not played then eligibility will be the least of anyone\'s worries. If football is not played, there will be no more college hockey or there will be a huge contraction because athletic funding will dry up.
Wait, what?

Big colleges have big endowments. Those endowments spin off cash. Enough cash to sustain a single season of no football. Womens' fencing may be in trouble, but college hockey at BC, or Michigan, or Notre Dame will be just fine.

Small colleges don't have football. At least not football that anybody goes to see. Do you REALLY think Endicott or Babson or Bowdoin hockey is funded by football?
Schools dont' bleed down their endowments for non revenue generating sports. They also don't spin off cash in a depression, which is what we will have if things are not open in the fall. The mentality that the current state today remains through any duration of lockdown is foolish. Right now unemployment is viewed as a restaurant/hotel/service industry issue but the domino effect into other industries will happen when demand continues to fall.

Re: Junior and College Eligibility

anon
Anon
anon
If things are so bad in Septamber that campuses are not open and sports are not played then eligibility will be the least of anyone\\\'s worries. If football is not played, there will be no more college hockey or there will be a huge contraction because athletic funding will dry up.
Wait, what?

Big colleges have big endowments. Those endowments spin off cash. Enough cash to sustain a single season of no football. Womens\' fencing may be in trouble, but college hockey at BC, or Michigan, or Notre Dame will be just fine.

Small colleges don\'t have football. At least not football that anybody goes to see. Do you REALLY think Endicott or Babson or Bowdoin hockey is funded by football?
Schools dont' bleed down their endowments for non revenue generating sports. They also don't spin off cash in a depression, which is what we will have if things are not open in the fall. The mentality that the current state today remains through any duration of lockdown is foolish. Right now unemployment is viewed as a restaurant/hotel/service industry issue but the domino effect into other industries will happen when demand continues to fall.
Why would you call big school college hockey a non-revenue sport?

And I haven't heard anyone saying "unemployment is viewed as a restaurant/hotel/service industry issue."

so, congrats, you're the first.

Re: Junior and College Eligibility

Anon
anon
Anon
anon
If things are so bad in Septamber that campuses are not open and sports are not played then eligibility will be the least of anyone\\\\\\\'s worries. If football is not played, there will be no more college hockey or there will be a huge contraction because athletic funding will dry up.
Wait, what?

Big colleges have big endowments. Those endowments spin off cash. Enough cash to sustain a single season of no football. Womens\\\' fencing may be in trouble, but college hockey at BC, or Michigan, or Notre Dame will be just fine.

Small colleges don\\\'t have football. At least not football that anybody goes to see. Do you REALLY think Endicott or Babson or Bowdoin hockey is funded by football?
Schools dont\' bleed down their endowments for non revenue generating sports. They also don\'t spin off cash in a depression, which is what we will have if things are not open in the fall. The mentality that the current state today remains through any duration of lockdown is foolish. Right now unemployment is viewed as a restaurant/hotel/service industry issue but the domino effect into other industries will happen when demand continues to fall.
Why would you call big school college hockey a non-revenue sport?

And I haven't heard anyone saying "unemployment is viewed as a restaurant/hotel/service industry issue."

so, congrats, you're the first.
Because that's the bulk of the current unemployment. White collar jobs have not been hit yet. They will, as will other industries if the lockdown persists. Not hard to think through.

As for big shool college hockey, sure many can afford it but if you look through the 60 d1 programs there are many that can't. Those schools arent' just thinking about the fall, they are thinking impact over the next 5-10 years and their survival. Hockey won't be high up on the priority list.

Re: Junior and College Eligibility

Anon
anon
Anon
anon
If things are so bad in Septamber that campuses are not open and sports are not played then eligibility will be the least of anyone\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s worries. If football is not played, there will be no more college hockey or there will be a huge contraction because athletic funding will dry up.
Wait, what?

Big colleges have big endowments. Those endowments spin off cash. Enough cash to sustain a single season of no football. Womens\\\\\\\' fencing may be in trouble, but college hockey at BC, or Michigan, or Notre Dame will be just fine.

Small colleges don\\\\\\\'t have football. At least not football that anybody goes to see. Do you REALLY think Endicott or Babson or Bowdoin hockey is funded by football?
Schools dont\\\' bleed down their endowments for non revenue generating sports. They also don\\\'t spin off cash in a depression, which is what we will have if things are not open in the fall. The mentality that the current state today remains through any duration of lockdown is foolish. Right now unemployment is viewed as a restaurant/hotel/service industry issue but the domino effect into other industries will happen when demand continues to fall.
Why would you call big school college hockey a non-revenue sport?

And I haven\'t heard anyone saying \"unemployment is viewed as a restaurant/hotel/service industry issue.\"

so, congrats, you\'re the first.
Previous guy is right! Outside of MN and Beanpot Finals hockey is a non revenue generating sport. All college athletics outside of Football and Basketball are non revenue generating. Also, service industries ( jobs where you cannot work from home) make up the bulk of unemployment at this point. If economy continues this way another month or two then we will start seeing layoffs in many sectors

Re: Junior and College Eligibility

Anon
anon
If things are so bad in Septamber that campuses are not open and sports are not played then eligibility will be the least of anyone\'s worries. If football is not played, there will be no more college hockey or there will be a huge contraction because athletic funding will dry up.
Wait, what?

Big colleges have big endowments. Those endowments spin off cash. Enough cash to sustain a single season of no football. Womens' fencing may be in trouble, but college hockey at BC, or Michigan, or Notre Dame will be just fine.

Small colleges don't have football. At least not football that anybody goes to see. Do you REALLY think Endicott or Babson or Bowdoin hockey is funded by football?
Don't you have any clue on how D3 sports are funded? A good chunk of it comes from the NCAA which get's all of it's money from football and basketball. If those sports don't play, it impacts Babson.

Re: Junior and College Eligibility

anon
Anon
anon
If things are so bad in Septamber that campuses are not open and sports are not played then eligibility will be the least of anyone\\\'s worries. If football is not played, there will be no more college hockey or there will be a huge contraction because athletic funding will dry up.
Wait, what?

Big colleges have big endowments. Those endowments spin off cash. Enough cash to sustain a single season of no football. Womens\' fencing may be in trouble, but college hockey at BC, or Michigan, or Notre Dame will be just fine.

Small colleges don\'t have football. At least not football that anybody goes to see. Do you REALLY think Endicott or Babson or Bowdoin hockey is funded by football?
Don't you have any clue on how D3 sports are funded? A good chunk of it comes from the NCAA which get's all of it's money from football and basketball. If those sports don't play, it impacts Babson.
Just an FYI, NCAA has a budget a bit north a billion and roughly 900 million of that comes from the men's basketball tournament. The NCAA actually gets very little money from football because bowl games are used to determine a national champion and the bowl games are privately owned businesses. (I'm shocked that this hasn't changed yet.) As a not for profit institution their financials are in the public domain. One interesting note, men's D-I hockey is one of only five championship tournaments the NCAA makes money on.

NCAA provides about 38 million in annual funding to D-III sports, mostly to hold their championship tournaments. So not chump change but not exactly providing full funding for sports.

Re: Junior and College Eligibility

anon
anon
Anon
anon
If things are so bad in Septamber that campuses are not open and sports are not played then eligibility will be the least of anyone\\\\\\\'s worries. If football is not played, there will be no more college hockey or there will be a huge contraction because athletic funding will dry up.
Wait, what?

Big colleges have big endowments. Those endowments spin off cash. Enough cash to sustain a single season of no football. Womens\\\' fencing may be in trouble, but college hockey at BC, or Michigan, or Notre Dame will be just fine.

Small colleges don\\\'t have football. At least not football that anybody goes to see. Do you REALLY think Endicott or Babson or Bowdoin hockey is funded by football?
Don\'t you have any clue on how D3 sports are funded? A good chunk of it comes from the NCAA which get\'s all of it\'s money from football and basketball. If those sports don\'t play, it impacts Babson.
Just an FYI, NCAA has a budget a bit north a billion and roughly 900 million of that comes from the men's basketball tournament. The NCAA actually gets very little money from football because bowl games are used to determine a national champion and the bowl games are privately owned businesses. (I'm shocked that this hasn't changed yet.) As a not for profit institution their financials are in the public domain. One interesting note, men's D-I hockey is one of only five championship tournaments the NCAA makes money on.

NCAA provides about 38 million in annual funding to D-III sports, mostly to hold their championship tournaments. So not chump change but not exactly providing full funding for sports.
Great Insight! Goes to show you every now and then, between the non sensical banter, you can still get a little nugget.

Re: Junior and College Eligibility

anon
anon
Anon
anon
If things are so bad in Septamber that campuses are not open and sports are not played then eligibility will be the least of anyone\\\\\\\'s worries. If football is not played, there will be no more college hockey or there will be a huge contraction because athletic funding will dry up.
Wait, what?

Big colleges have big endowments. Those endowments spin off cash. Enough cash to sustain a single season of no football. Womens\\\' fencing may be in trouble, but college hockey at BC, or Michigan, or Notre Dame will be just fine.

Small colleges don\\\'t have football. At least not football that anybody goes to see. Do you REALLY think Endicott or Babson or Bowdoin hockey is funded by football?
Don\'t you have any clue on how D3 sports are funded? A good chunk of it comes from the NCAA which get\'s all of it\'s money from football and basketball. If those sports don\'t play, it impacts Babson.
Just an FYI, NCAA has a budget a bit north a billion and roughly 900 million of that comes from the men's basketball tournament. The NCAA actually gets very little money from football because bowl games are used to determine a national champion and the bowl games are privately owned businesses. (I'm shocked that this hasn't changed yet.) As a not for profit institution their financials are in the public domain. One interesting note, men's D-I hockey is one of only five championship tournaments the NCAA makes money on.

NCAA provides about 38 million in annual funding to D-III sports, mostly to hold their championship tournaments. So not chump change but not exactly providing full funding for sports.
So, wait, Endicott and Babson and Bowdoin hockey isn't funded by football?

Didn't think so. In fact, knew so.

Re: Junior and College Eligibility

So, if D1 hockey is possibly in peril, what are the chances D3 hockey will happen ?

Re: Junior and College Eligibility

anon
So, if D1 hockey is possibly in peril, what are the chances D3 hockey will happen ?
My understanding is that D-III sports are funded as part of an institutions ongoing budget through a combination of tuition and fees. So as along as enrollment is steady, everything should be fine. Where you could see a potential issue is with state colleges. For example, about 50% of the UMASS Amherst athletic budget is direct funded by the Commonwealth, the rest is fees all students pay. (UMASS produces less than $2 million in combined sports revenue on a nearly 40 Million annual athletic budget.) With tax receipts coming in woefully under expectations this year, combined with an expanded state payroll for Contact Tracing and additional emergency spending it's likely next years budget gets a big ole ax taken to it. I realize UMASS is a hackorama for political refugees but I don't think it's too far fetched to believe their athletic funding might be impacted.


Re: Junior and College Eligibility

All I know is that in 80s I chose a college and was going to play there. The last minute they cancelled their hockey program due to budget cuts and it never returned. Sucked big time. Wish all the kids better luck now.

Re: Junior and College Eligibility

Endicott or Babson or Bowdoin hockey are not funded by football.. Babson does not have it.. the schools that do have football are funded by football but not spectators, students. There are no scholarships, so a D3 school like Endicott gets guaranteed tuition and housing revenue (near 50k) multiplied by about 100.. near five million guaranteed each year from football. Let's say it costs at least half a million or more to operate it and we'll be generous.. say half the team are getting "academic" scholarships... That's over a million for one athletics program. If these things don't happen, and those students don't come to school, that's a lot of money they are expecting to get that disappears.

You can do the same thing with Babson's 25+ hockey players multiplied by estimated cost of attendance (over 70K). That's over a million per year coming to the school, guaranteed by the coach bringing in hockey players. If sports does not happen D3 will be hurt but not because of spectators