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Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

Its outrageous that this is brought up constantly

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

You don't need to do this, it is happening on its own.

The Top 4 EHF programs will go to the USPHL as Tier 1 so they can compete super-regionally. The top 4 E9 teams will go to the MPDHL or EJEPL as Tier 1 for the same reason. The kids and parents can decide for themselves which league they want to compete in.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

When is this set to happen? Rumor or confirmed?

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

Anon
You don't need to do this, it is happening on its own.

The Top 4 EHF programs will go to the USPHL as Tier 1 so they can compete super-regionally. The top 4 E9 teams will go to the MPDHL or EJEPL as Tier 1 for the same reason. The kids and parents can decide for themselves which league they want to compete in.


pipe dream. parents are not going to drive 4 hours to NY/NJ Eastern CT, Western PA for one or 2 away games and vice versa. And before you tout the Showcases even three or four a year will not cut it when the rest of the season your playing 3 other FED teams and the other regional Crap they bring in that is maybe town A at best. If they do this these programs fall apart and they know it. The cash cow is only so big and some one else will step up and promise parents local hockey again and they will follow along.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

Anon
Anon
You don't need to do this, it is happening on its own.

The Top 4 EHF programs will go to the USPHL as Tier 1 so they can compete super-regionally. The top 4 E9 teams will go to the MPDHL or EJEPL as Tier 1 for the same reason. The kids and parents can decide for themselves which league they want to compete in.


pipe dream. parents are not going to drive 4 hours to NY/NJ Eastern CT, Western PA for one or 2 away games and vice versa. And before you tout the Showcases even three or four a year will not cut it when the rest of the season your playing 3 other FED teams and the other regional Crap they bring in that is maybe town A at best. If they do this these programs fall apart and they know it. The cash cow is only so big and some one else will step up and promise parents local hockey again and they will follow along.


I agree with this poster. The one thing we have going here is lots of good competition close to home. This model would take us all unnecessarily far from home for no better competition.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

How does this scenario make money for all of the club teams that don't care what kind of product they put on the ice ?

Why go through all of that when numerous clubs can keep what they have, rake it in ant not care that the top 8 teams in the region are playing each other.

At the end of the day the owners want to clear as much profit as possible, not try to establish a super league so that they can have clueless parents pound their chests about superiority.

Nobody really cares about the EHF/E9 top team debate except for the parents. Not the owners, leagues, or kids.

In a few years if your kid has it, then they move on to the NTDC or other high end team.

In the end all, all your pipe dream would accomplish is the realization that your kid is not as good as you thought and there are plenty of kids better, and the disparity between elite and Tier 1 players is not as glaring as yu thought.

The ideal model is all of these kids play for their respective towns and town hockey would be great, then the best players are selcted for a few regional select teams that play each other. That way only the top players get selected for these teams and it is not a Pay to play= I am elite.

In fact the current model is going in the opposite direction. Have some kids who cant cut it at club, lets make a few more new teams that are Tier 1 only and town kids can pay and their parents can say that they play on a select team.

CLiff NOtes: Things are not going to change

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

Anon
How does this scenario make money for all of the club teams that don't care what kind of product they put on the ice ?

Why go through all of that when numerous clubs can keep what they have, rake it in ant not care that the top 8 teams in the region are playing each other.

At the end of the day the owners want to clear as much profit as possible, not try to establish a super league so that they can have clueless parents pound their chests about superiority.

Nobody really cares about the EHF/E9 top team debate except for the parents. Not the owners, leagues, or kids.

In a few years if your kid has it, then they move on to the NTDC or other high end team.

In the end all, all your pipe dream would accomplish is the realization that your kid is not as good as you thought and there are plenty of kids better, and the disparity between elite and Tier 1 players is not as glaring as yu thought.

The ideal model is all of these kids play for their respective towns and town hockey would be great, then the best players are selcted for a few regional select teams that play each other. That way only the top players get selected for these teams and it is not a Pay to play= I am elite.

In fact the current model is going in the opposite direction. Have some kids who cant cut it at club, lets make a few more new teams that are Tier 1 only and town kids can pay and their parents can say that they play on a select team.

CLiff NOtes: Things are not going to change


They used to have this scenario and it was called Yankee Conference. best kids from the new States would get together and play and see who comes out on top. then you would have your summer all star teams that would travel around and play the best competition. Now you have all these for profit leagues and parents are delusional so they will keep funneling money along even though their kids will end up skating in beer leagues across new england.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

anon
I hate to interject reality but the top 4 E9 programs aren't that great. They would be mid pack EHF teams for a majority of them. Realistically you would probably have to take the top 6 EHF teams and then maybe the top 2 E9 teams for debate sake.


The discussion isn't about which league the teams come from dummy. Go post on one of the 5 active threads talking about league superiority.

The point is eight AAA in the state...period. If the New England Bulldogs and Boston Stars were named as two of the eight, I guarantee you they would end up stronger than the EHF teams that were relegated to AA status. There would be no leagues, it would be eight teams for the best 120 or so players in the state.

I would expand it further:

North Division
1. Central MA
2. Northeast MA
3. Maine
4. NH
5. Vermont

South Division
1. Metro Boston
2. Southeast MA
3. Western MA
4. Connecticut
5. RI

10 AAA teams in the New England region.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

anon
I hate to interject reality but the top 4 E9 programs aren't that great. They would be mid pack EHF teams for a majority of them. Realistically you would probably have to take the top 6 EHF teams and then maybe the top 2 E9 teams for debate sake.


I what wholeheartedly agree with this. I'd also strongly consider the Vipers to this special list. They have been dominating Tier 1 and would certainly be in the top 6 EHF Elite, for most years. (Important note: am not a Viper parent/coach - this is just simply my objective observation, as a non-biased youth hockey fan).

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

Anon
Lets take the top 4 Fed programs in the E9 and Fed respectively, and lets call these 8 programs AAA. No one else in the state can call themselves AAA. And to be a AAA program you have to state your case. Lets look at the programs' winning history, numbers of kids moving on to pros, college, Jrs, preps, etc. Also, prove your financial stability, whats the balance sheet look like at the club. Lastly, AAAs must have an up-to-date facility. An older facility thats clean, and has upgrades are fine. But no more so called AAA programs playing in an aluminum icebox or a barn with trip hazards at every corner and enough CO2 in the air to kill an elephant. These 8 teams will play each other EXCLUSIVELY during the regular season along with any other out of state AAA teams. Mass. AAA can be competitive once again.

Every other "for-profit" club must be a "AA" designated team. They to will play EXCLUSIVELY against each other in their own division, but can play any out of state AAA program they care to put on their schedule (or in tournaments).

Every other club that is partially or completely funded by a municipality or township gets an "A" designation and plays in their own division against other "A" town teams. Private clubs with low enrollment numbers can also play in this division.

POST SEASON

The 8 AAA teams all get automatic bids regardless of record (TOP 8 SEEDS) to play in a State championship tournament, the next best 24 teams (All AA) also get bids (SEEDS 9-32) and all get to participate in a State Championship Tournament. And we have at it with the final being played in some posh college arena or TD.

Town Teams play in their own state tournament.

... Okay have to get back to work now :D

Thoughts? Pipe dream I know :/


Nothing like this will ever happen.

What is good for the sport of hockey is not in the interests, primarily financial interests, of the people running hockey in this state.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

It will take someone to steal a page out of the Boston Mission history book to create a real AAA 'super team' that actually can compete nationally. They started as squirts and folded at Bantams as they all went their own way.

Anyone looking to write a book should give it some thought.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

anon
It will take someone to steal a page out of the Boston Mission history book to create a real AAA 'super team' that actually can compete nationally. They started as squirts and folded at Bantams as they all went their own way.

Anyone looking to write a book should give it some thought.


Local teams have competed very well nationally already. 01 Flames dominated for years, 02 Breakers were semifinalists in the Q, U14 Eagles lost to SSM in last years national title game. I would say local teams do fine.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

I WOULD SAY THIS TOPIC AND ANYTHING AROUND WHO HAS THE BETTER LEAGUE HAS BEEN KNOCKED INTO THE GROUND!!!! WHO CARES!!!

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

Seems like a lot of people care....

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

I don't think we care who the better league is E9 or Fed in this discussion, that's not the point. The point is if you have 8 truly superior AAA teams the top 120 or so players in the state at a given birth year will naturally end up in this league(speaking generally of course). The AA teams lose AAA status but WOULDNT be shut out of a state championship and town teams can truly play town competition (effectively keeping enrollment numbers high for rec players who are the ones who's families pay for the majority of youth hockey). A local TRUE AAA league would not require extensive travel at all. I get it, I like it. If you look at other states they only have a handful of AAA teams. There isn't this business of having a glut of AAA teams (in name only) like we have here in MA. Like comp plays against like comp and kids develop properly. A state tourney at the end of it all ensures no program gets shut out.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

yuk
I WOULD SAY THIS TOPIC AND ANYTHING AROUND WHO HAS THE BETTER LEAGUE HAS BEEN KNOCKED INTO THE GROUND!!!! WHO CARES!!!


you obviously care enough to comment.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

anon
I hate to interject reality but the top 4 E9 programs aren't that great. They would be mid pack EHF teams for a majority of them. Realistically you would probably have to take the top 6 EHF teams and then maybe the top 2 E9 teams for debate sake.


I wholeheartedly agree with this. I'd also strongly consider the Vipers to this special list. They have been dominating Tier 1 and would certainly be in the top 6 EHF Elite, for most years. (Important note: I am not a Viper parent/coach - this is just simply my objective observation, as a non-biased person).

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

Whateva Vinny! Vipers are Tier 2 you idiot.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

Anon
anon
I hate to interject reality but the top 4 E9 programs aren't that great. They would be mid pack EHF teams for a majority of them. Realistically you would probably have to take the top 6 EHF teams and then maybe the top 2 E9 teams for debate sake.


I wholeheartedly agree with this. I'd also strongly consider the Vipers to this special list. They have been dominating Tier 1 and would certainly be in the top 6 EHF Elite, for most years. (Important note: I am not a Viper parent/coach - this is just simply my objective observation, as a non-biased person).


Can we please stop with the Vipers being Elite.They got crushed last weekend.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

anon
Anon
anon
I hate to interject reality but the top 4 E9 programs aren't that great. They would be mid pack EHF teams for a majority of them. Realistically you would probably have to take the top 6 EHF teams and then maybe the top 2 E9 teams for debate sake.


I wholeheartedly agree with this. I'd also strongly consider the Vipers to this special list. They have been dominating Tier 1 and would certainly be in the top 6 EHF Elite, for most years. (Important note: I am not a Viper parent/coach - this is just simply my objective observation, as a non-biased person).


Can we please stop with the Vipers being Elite.They got crushed last weekend.


They actually did okay, with several close losses. The "Super 8" league could look like this:

-Top 5 EHF Elite
-Top 2 E9
-Vipers

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

How do you determine the program had "kids that moved on to college" per the original post?

if a kid played somewhere for Mites and Squirts then moved on for better hockey, does the organization take credit for the fact that he played for some stiff daddy coaches when he was 8, 9, and 10 years old for "developing" him into a college player?

I see it all the time on team's websites claiming that "former" player X made festival, committed to college, etc. when the truth is he maybe played for them split season before prep season started, or he played learned to skate hockey program back when he was 6.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

anon
How do you determine the program had "kids that moved on to college" per the original post?

if a kid played somewhere for Mites and Squirts then moved on for better hockey, does the organization take credit for the fact that he played for some stiff daddy coaches when he was 8, 9, and 10 years old for "developing" him into a college player?

I see it all the time on team's websites claiming that "former" player X made festival, committed to college, etc. when the truth is he maybe played for them split season before prep season started, or he played learned to skate hockey program back when he was 6.


Per EHF rules if you showed up to a public skate in one of their rinks then they claim you when you move on to NCAA or get drafted.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

Anon
anon
How do you determine the program had "kids that moved on to college" per the original post?

if a kid played somewhere for Mites and Squirts then moved on for better hockey, does the organization take credit for the fact that he played for some stiff daddy coaches when he was 8, 9, and 10 years old for "developing" him into a college player?

I see it all the time on team's websites claiming that "former" player X made festival, committed to college, etc. when the truth is he maybe played for them split season before prep season started, or he played learned to skate hockey program back when he was 6.


Per EHF rules if you showed up to a public skate in one of their rinks then they claim you when you move on to NCAA or get drafted.
The two teams that are the most blatant about this are VJW and BA. Gee, what league are they in?

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

Anon
Anon
anon
How do you determine the program had "kids that moved on to college" per the original post?

if a kid played somewhere for Mites and Squirts then moved on for better hockey, does the organization take credit for the fact that he played for some stiff daddy coaches when he was 8, 9, and 10 years old for "developing" him into a college player?

I see it all the time on team's websites claiming that "former" player X made festival, committed to college, etc. when the truth is he maybe played for them split season before prep season started, or he played learned to skate hockey program back when he was 6.


Per EHF rules if you showed up to a public skate in one of their rinks then they claim you when you move on to NCAA or get drafted.
The two teams that are the most blatant about this are VJW and BA. Gee, what league are they in?


That was my point exactly. Kid does stick and puck at some of these rinks and for some reason they become a "former player" of that organization.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

Ok. Give me an example for VJW?



anon
Anon
Anon
anon
How do you determine the program had "kids that moved on to college" per the original post?

if a kid played somewhere for Mites and Squirts then moved on for better hockey, does the organization take credit for the fact that he played for some stiff daddy coaches when he was 8, 9, and 10 years old for "developing" him into a college player?

I see it all the time on team's websites claiming that "former" player X made festival, committed to college, etc. when the truth is he maybe played for them split season before prep season started, or he played learned to skate hockey program back when he was 6.


Per EHF rules if you showed up to a public skate in one of their rinks then they claim you when you move on to NCAA or get drafted.
The two teams that are the most blatant about this are VJW and BA. Gee, what league are they in?


That was my point exactly. Kid does stick and puck at some of these rinks and for some reason they become a "former player" of that organization.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

anon
Ok. Give me an example for VJW?


http://www.jrwarriors.com/content.php?id=2308§=1&catid=286&navid=1

When the 2015 NHL Draft Central Scouting Service midterm rankings came out this past week, it was no surprise that a handful of Valley Jr Warrior alums made the list.

Noah Hanifin, Casey Fitzgerald, Colin White and Cam Askew were all a part of the list of players who are projected to be selected in June’s draft which will take place on June 26–27 at the BB&T Center in Sunrise, Florida.

All four players were major contributors on the VJW ’97 Elite team that captured two Massachusetts State Championship titles and advanced to the USA Hockey National Championships in 2010 and 2012

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

I meant give me examples of how the VJWs put a kid on their website that DIDNT pay with them.

Re: Lets solve this problem we call Watered down Mass. youth hockey...

Anon
anon
Anon
anon
I hate to interject reality but the top 4 E9 programs aren't that great. They would be mid pack EHF teams for a majority of them. Realistically you would probably have to take the top 6 EHF teams and then maybe the top 2 E9 teams for debate sake.


I wholeheartedly agree with this. I'd also strongly consider the Vipers to this special list. They have been dominating Tier 1 and would certainly be in the top 6 EHF Elite, for most years. (Important note: I am not a Viper parent/coach - this is just simply my objective observation, as a non-biased person).


Can we please stop with the Vipers being Elite.They got crushed last weekend.


They actually did okay, with several close losses. The "Super 8" league could look like this:

-Top 5 EHF Elite
-Top 2 E9
-Vipers


Lmao too funny ok well enjoy your close losses and Tier 1. I'm sure you'll dominate Tier 1 yet again. Have fun