Ice Hockey DBoard

The Official New England Ice Hockey DBoard 


Click Here to Visit Our Facebook Page

email: icehockeydboard@yahoo.com

Youth Hockey
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
View Entire Thread
Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

anon
Thank you for posting. I read it and felt the same thing. Talk about putting it in perspective. This article really hits home that sometimes, we take ourselves too seriously on these boards.
Wait, I thought I was a moron? I mean what value is there to looking at USA Hockey's view of the top 46 players in the country for the 2001 birth year, where they're from, and where they're playing?

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

Anon
Take a good look at this list. THESE are the elite players from across the country for the 2001 birth year.

http://www.usahockeyntdp.com/news_article/show/766461?referrer_id=654408

Five elite players from MA. Five. All five are playing Prep now. Three played on the MMF "Q" team. Two played on the BJB Brick team.

My guess is it will be less than 5 next year, and less than that the year after, at the rate things are going.

So, if your kid isn't in that kind of conversation, capable of playing with and against kids at that level, now and in the future, he isn't playing "Elite" hockey.


Will the 05 MMF make the Q? Will they repeat? 4 brick players...

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

Coach
Anon
Take a good look at this list. THESE are the elite players from across the country for the 2001 birth year.

http://www.usahockeyntdp.com/news_article/show/766461?referrer_id=654408

Five elite players from MA. Five. All five are playing Prep now. Three played on the MMF "Q" team. Two played on the BJB Brick team.

My guess is it will be less than 5 next year, and less than that the year after, at the rate things are going.

So, if your kid isn't in that kind of conversation, capable of playing with and against kids at that level, now and in the future, he isn't playing "Elite" hockey.


Will the 05 MMF make the Q? Will they repeat? 4 brick players...

04 SSK had 6 or 7. Three and out at the Q. Eliminated in quarterfinals of EHF this year.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

The kids playing in the Q are 11-12 yo and the ones is the Brick are 9-10, those are not benchmarks on who is "going to make it". Using that as a baseline is ridiculous.
Take a deep breath and worry about something else.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

anon
The kids playing in the Q are 11-12 yo and the ones is the Brick are 9-10, those are not benchmarks on who is "going to make it". Using that as a baseline is ridiculous.
Take a deep breath and worry about something else.

I think that's the point being made smart guy.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

Anon
Take a good look at this list. THESE are the elite players from across the country for the 2001 birth year.

http://www.usahockeyntdp.com/news_article/show/766461?referrer_id=654408

Five elite players from MA. Five. All five are playing Prep now. Three played on the MMF "Q" team. Two played on the BJB Brick team.

My guess is it will be less than 5 next year, and less than that the year after, at the rate things are going.

So, if your kid isn't in that kind of conversation, capable of playing with and against kids at that level, now and in the future, he isn't playing "Elite" hockey.


Someone should write an article on the NHL players who were not the best kid on their High School/College/Junior/prep teams, never mind did not play elite youth hockey because there are lots more than those who were at this level at the same age !

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

I think its crazy to think only 5 01's in MA are good enough to compete with these kids? Maybe these were the 5 who were chosen, but their are plenty of qualified 01's in MA who can compete at a very high level.
I am all for not giving every kid a trophy, there is already too much of that, but you cant honestly think that only 5 01's in the state of MA are capable of competing at that level.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

anon
I think its crazy to think only 5 01's in MA are good enough to compete with these kids? Maybe these were the 5 who were chosen, but their are plenty of qualified 01's in MA who can compete at a very high level.
I am all for not giving every kid a trophy, there is already too much of that, but you cant honestly think that only 5 01's in the state of MA are capable of competing at that level.
USA Hockey thinks so. They don't operate with any quotas. The politics is largely stripped away (not entirely, of course). They are simply looking for the best American born players that fit their criteria.

This year the U17 roster consists of 27 players. Two are from MA - JW and OW.

The U18 roster consists of 26 players. Two are from MA - the same two.

So, at what is arguably the top level in the nation for the 2000 and 1999 birth years, two are from MA.

And for the guy hung up on what this predicts, no one said it predicts anything. It's just a list - a statistically relevant sample. Most of them won't make the NHL. Some others not on the list will.

But, based on the USNTDP being a legitimate cross-section of the truly "elite" American-born players, the percentage being developed by MA-based hockey programs is pretty low compared to the percentage of kids in the US that play their youth hockey in MA.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

To many teams calling themselves elite. Look around most teams have 2 maybe 3 truly elite kids. Then a bunch of kids that range from good to average. Watered down across the board until some spring tournaments where a bunch the elite kids come together and compete in some high end tourneys up in Toronto and such.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

Another moron who leaves facts out of his argument to make his point. If you read the article that you pasted to your post you would have known Massachusetts was 2nd it putting 5 kids in the NTDP camp. Next time don't let facts get in the way of your argument.

NOTES: The 46 players on the 2017 National Team Development Program Evaluation Camp roster represent 19 different states. New York leads the way with nine natives on the roster, while Minnesota and Massachusetts are tied for second with five. California, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey and Texas boast three players each.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

What about us CT folk?

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

anon
Another moron who leaves facts out of his argument to make his point. If you read the article that you pasted to your post you would have known Massachusetts was 2nd it putting 5 kids in the NTDP camp. Next time don't let facts get in the way of your argument.

NOTES: The 46 players on the 2017 National Team Development Program Evaluation Camp roster represent 19 different states. New York leads the way with nine natives on the roster, while Minnesota and Massachusetts are tied for second with five. California, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey and Texas boast three players each.

Not the OP, but don't you think there are more than 67 percent more players in MA than there are in CA, NJ, or TX? I think that's the point he is trying to make. Where can we look up the number of youth players by state to see if NY has 80 percent more than MA?

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

At the risk of being called a loser because I looked this up:

MA and NY had about the same number of youth players in 2015-16. MI was right there too, but MN was higher by about 15 percent. I will now head over to the Minnesota hockey dboard and ask them what is wrong with their system that they can't produce NTDP-caliber players.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0100/7886/15-16_Final_Reports.pdf

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

BTW NJ and CA are not even tabulated, but presented as part of "Atlantic" and "Pacific". Atlantic as a whole has about 70 percent of the players that Mass has, and Pacific as a whole is about the same as Mass. Those two regions seem to be fertile ground. As hockey continues to expand into these regions, it'll be harder and harder for Mass boys to make an impact on the National Team.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

anon
At the risk of being called a loser because I looked this up:

MA and NY had about the same number of youth players in 2015-16. MI was right there too, but MN was higher by about 15 percent. I will now head over to the Minnesota hockey dboard and ask them what is wrong with their system that they can't produce NTDP-caliber players.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0100/7886/15-16_Final_Reports.pdf
Think you left in the adults and the girls. MN has slightly more boys 16 and under playing than MA, but fewer in the 15-16 age group. Guess the parents in MN are more realistic, and the boys move on to the beer leagues sooner.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

Anon
anon
At the risk of being called a loser because I looked this up:

MA and NY had about the same number of youth players in 2015-16. MI was right there too, but MN was higher by about 15 percent. I will now head over to the Minnesota hockey dboard and ask them what is wrong with their system that they can't produce NTDP-caliber players.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0100/7886/15-16_Final_Reports.pdf
Think you left in the adults and the girls. MN has slightly more boys 16 and under playing than MA, but fewer in the 15-16 age group. Guess the parents in MN are more realistic, and the boys move on to the beer leagues sooner.

You are right. That makes you the loser for drilling down further. :)

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

So while the number of MA players reaching this rarefied level has certainly gone down, perhaps it has more to do with the growth of hockey into more of a national (instead of regional) game than it does our region falling behind. Not good for MA players, but it certainly has done wonders for the US in our competition with Canada.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

anon
anon
Another moron who leaves facts out of his argument to make his point. If you read the article that you pasted to your post you would have known Massachusetts was 2nd it putting 5 kids in the NTDP camp. Next time don't let facts get in the way of your argument.

NOTES: The 46 players on the 2017 National Team Development Program Evaluation Camp roster represent 19 different states. New York leads the way with nine natives on the roster, while Minnesota and Massachusetts are tied for second with five. California, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey and Texas boast three players each.

Not the OP, but don't you think there are more than 67 percent more players in MA than there are in CA, NJ, or TX? I think that's the point he is trying to make. Where can we look up the number of youth players by state to see if NY has 80 percent more than MA?
Here.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0100/7886/15-16_Final_Reports.pdf

2016/2017 doesn't seem to have been published yet. But, close enough.

And, because I'm good with numbers (for a moron), and because I actually find the Future Of MA Hockey to be an interesting topic, I did the math.

There were 37,633 registered boys age 15-16. That's the relevant talent pool these 46 were pulled from. Sorry, no data to separate the 15 YOs from the 16 YOs, but fair to assume the data isn't skewed towards one versus the other.

Of these, 4,065 are from MA. That's 10.8%. Five out of 46 is 10.9%. So, MA was properly represented, pretty exactly. I stand corrected. Still think it will be fewer next year, but I'm spitballing.

4,048 are from NY. Also 10.8%. 9 out of 496 is 19.6%. So, NY is overrepresented by 4 kids.

2,973 from MI, 7.9%. Their three kids represent 6.5%. Slightly underrepresented.

2,922 from MN, 7.8%. They are overrepresented by 1 1/2 kids. Feel sorry for the half a kid.

That's as far as you can go at the state level. From there, you'd need to go by region.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

Who was on the selection committee? Was there a reason for NY being about double the statistical representation?

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

You do realize that some other kids were invited and turned it down about a month ago, right? Or was that not in your article?

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

anon
You do realize that some other kids were invited and turned it down about a month ago, right? Or was that not in your article?

Let me guess...your kid? You want to give us his initials just so that we all know he is so cool that he turned away a NTDP opportunity?

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

anon
anon
You do realize that some other kids were invited and turned it down about a month ago, right? Or was that not in your article?

Let me guess...your kid? You want to give us his initials just so that we all know he is so cool that he turned away a NTDP opportunity?


Who does that? Seems crazy to say no to NTDP.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

Coach
anon
anon
You do realize that some other kids were invited and turned it down about a month ago, right? Or was that not in your article?

Let me guess...your kid? You want to give us his initials just so that we all know he is so cool that he turned away a NTDP opportunity?


Who does that? Seems crazy to say no to NTDP.
It's a huge commitment at 15/16 years old. Living away from home, the schedule is brutal, education definitely comes second. That isn't the dream everyone has for their kid, and if he's good enough he can certainly still get to the NCAA and show his stuff there.

But, I agree, if my kid were asked, I'm helping him pack.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

anon
Coach
anon
anon
You do realize that some other kids were invited and turned it down about a month ago, right? Or was that not in your article?

Let me guess...your kid? You want to give us his initials just so that we all know he is so cool that he turned away a NTDP opportunity?


Who does that? Seems crazy to say no to NTDP.
It's a huge commitment at 15/16 years old. Living away from home, the schedule is brutal, education definitely comes second. That isn't the dream everyone has for their kid, and if he's good enough he can certainly still get to the NCAA and show his stuff there.

But, I agree, if my kid were asked, I'm helping him pack.
You are spot on; but if your kid is good enough to get invited, he's got options whether he goes or not.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

Anon
anon
Coach
anon
anon
You do realize that some other kids were invited and turned it down about a month ago, right? Or was that not in your article?

Let me guess...your kid? You want to give us his initials just so that we all know he is so cool that he turned away a NTDP opportunity?


Who does that? Seems crazy to say no to NTDP.
It's a huge commitment at 15/16 years old. Living away from home, the schedule is brutal, education definitely comes second. That isn't the dream everyone has for their kid, and if he's good enough he can certainly still get to the NCAA and show his stuff there.

But, I agree, if my kid were asked, I'm helping him pack.
You are spot on; but if your kid is good enough to get invited, he's got options whether he goes or not.


^^^^^ lots of options available and the NTDP program directors are very good to work with, they understand that it is not for every kid. Very hard decision to turn down but was the right one.

Re: "Elite" MA Hockey

Two kids from Millis MA, that both committed to same school ? Hmmmm, weird that of all the 2001's across the country and state two come from a town with 7k people ?

In any event, people need to understand that lots of really good kids who could make the program do not even pursue that route.

And where did these Mass kids play their youth hockey, that is the important question !!