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Youth Hockey
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Re: Rich or poor

Anon
Someone told me AAU baseball is like $3K for a season. If that's the case then yes other sports are catching on. Its a no brainer - You will get better playing against better kids. Parents that pay more are more invested. I coached town a few years ago and there were a good amount of kids that would miss practice and games for things like ski trips, boy scouts, etc. I think if those parents were more invested financially there kids would not be missing practices and games.

"Catching on?" AAU has been around for over 100 years, and has been charging athlete's families for a superior product in multiple sports since at least the '70's.

Re: Rich or poor

It's not a matter of rich or poor. It all depends on which kid has the hottest mommy. :smirk:

Re: Rich or poor

Anon
Anon
Someone told me AAU baseball is like \$3K for a season. If that\'s the case then yes other sports are catching on. Its a no brainer - You will get better playing against better kids. Parents that pay more are more invested. I coached town a few years ago and there were a good amount of kids that would miss practice and games for things like ski trips, boy scouts, etc. I think if those parents were more invested financially there kids would not be missing practices and games.

"Catching on?" AAU has been around for over 100 years, and has been charging athlete's families for a superior product in multiple sports since at least the '70's.
That's been severely watered down in the last 5-10 years. There are a ton of AAU basketball and baseball programs that are no better than good town teams. It really depends on coaching (like hockey) and there are only so many good ones to go around with the expansion of programs. In many cases your kid is better off playing summer ball for $100 instead of shelling out big $$$ for AAU.

Re: Rich or poor

Anon
Anon
Anon
Someone told me AAU baseball is like \\$3K for a season. If that\\'s the case then yes other sports are catching on. Its a no brainer - You will get better playing against better kids. Parents that pay more are more invested. I coached town a few years ago and there were a good amount of kids that would miss practice and games for things like ski trips, boy scouts, etc. I think if those parents were more invested financially there kids would not be missing practices and games.

"Catching on?" AAU has been around for over 100 years, and has been charging athlete's families for a superior product in multiple sports since at least the '70's.
That's been severely watered down in the last 5-10 years. There are a ton of AAU basketball and baseball programs that are no better than good town teams. It really depends on coaching (like hockey) and there are only so many good ones to go around with the expansion of programs. In many cases your kid is better off playing summer ball for $100 instead of shelling out big $$$ for AAU.
At 12 and under, "AAU" baseball ends by mid June to make way for summer town ball, so you really should be playing both. But your point is a good one in that you will probably get more development from the $100-$150 summer ball fee then you did from the $2500 club ball tab. Practice or game every day from 6/15 until early August if you get the right District coach. Just like hockey, this all breaks down at age 13 and 14 and you realize what a great deal summer baseball was on the small diamond.

Re: Rich or poor

anon
Anon
Anon
Anon
Someone told me AAU baseball is like \\\\\\\\\\\$3K for a season. If that\\\\\\\\\\\'s the case then yes other sports are catching on. Its a no brainer - You will get better playing against better kids. Parents that pay more are more invested. I coached town a few years ago and there were a good amount of kids that would miss practice and games for things like ski trips, boy scouts, etc. I think if those parents were more invested financially there kids would not be missing practices and games.

\\\"Catching on?\\\" AAU has been around for over 100 years, and has been charging athlete\\\'s families for a superior product in multiple sports since at least the \\\'70\\\'s.
That\\\'s been severely watered down in the last 5-10 years. There are a ton of AAU basketball and baseball programs that are no better than good town teams. It really depends on coaching (like hockey) and there are only so many good ones to go around with the expansion of programs. In many cases your kid is better off playing summer ball for \\\$100 instead of shelling out big \\\$\\\$\\\$ for AAU.
At 12 and under, \"AAU\" baseball ends by mid June to make way for summer town ball, so you really should be playing both. But your point is a good one in that you will probably get more development from the \$100-\$150 summer ball fee then you did from the \$2500 club ball tab. Practice or game every day from 6/15 until early August if you get the right District coach. Just like hockey, this all breaks down at age 13 and 14 and you realize what a great deal summer baseball was on the small diamond.
No question AAU baseball is the biggest scam in youth sports. It's way bigger than elite hockey and parents fall for it. I'm not ashamed to say I did when my kid did it his first year. We hooked up with some clown who only started the team to coach his son who was terrible. Unfortunately I realized it too late and the check had been cashed. No refunds is the response I got. Worst baseball coach I had ever seen. The barrier to entry is so low in baseball any jerk off the street can start an AAU team. Much tougher to do in hockey. Learned an expensive lesson that year. Some of the kids on my son's town team play on 3 or 4 team's and they travel around the country getting destroyed but hey their kid is on a travel team. That's all that matters. There are more suckered in baseball than in hockey

As far hockey is concerned it is a rich kids game. No doubt about it and I being of modest means have to be smart about what my kid does especially in the spring and summer. The key has been to surround him with people who genuinely want to see him succeed and that has allowed him to improve and develop. I have to put in a lot of OT at work but it's all worth it.

Re: Rich or poor

I love class warfare talk on a hockey discussion board.

Define rich (I say top 5% of earners or a little over 400K per year in income for MA)
Define middle income (PEW defines it as falling between 67% to 200% of median income in any given state for a family of 3, in MA that equals approx $52K - $154K)

Nope, hockey is not just a rich family sport. I know plenty of players that have come from middle income families that have done quite well in the sport.


Re: Rich or poor

anon
I love class warfare talk on a hockey discussion board.

Define rich (I say top 5% of earners or a little over 400K per year in income for MA)
Define middle income (PEW defines it as falling between 67% to 200% of median income in any given state for a family of 3, in MA that equals approx $52K - $154K)

Nope, hockey is not just a rich family sport. I know plenty of players that have come from middle income families that have done quite well in the sport.


Thanks for the analysis, Stats Boy, but the question was binary.

Re: Rich or poor

You're welcome and I did give a binary answer to devolving question. It is not a rich kids sport, it's a middle class sport with families willing to commit available resources but some people see a family making 200K a year & assume they are "rich" so I thought it important to add some context.

Please return to reading your "graphic novel" as I realize all these words are giving you a headache.

Re: Rich or poor

anon
You're welcome and I did give a binary answer to devolving question. It is not a rich kids sport, it's a middle class sport with families willing to commit available resources but some people see a family making 200K a year & assume they are "rich" so I thought it important to add some context.

Please return to reading your "graphic novel" as I realize all these words are giving you a headache.
Q: Two kids, one rich, one poor. Equal skill. Which one makes it?

A: "I know plenty of players that have come from middle income families that have done quite well in the sport."

Yeah, spot on. Really nailed it.

You must be a Libertarian.

Re: Rich or poor

If a kid is truly poor, or what most of us would agree is poor he isn't playing hockey anyway. Same with baseball now that it's pretty much mandatory to go the AAU route if you want to get anywhere. The kids from limited means are still gravitating towards football and basketball.

Seriously. How many stories do you see about hockey players that came from tough backgrounds in today's world? Those stories are a dime a dozen with football and basketball. Hockey? Can't remember the last time I heard one.

Money sport. More now than ever before.

Re: Rich or poor

Anon
If a kid is truly poor, or what most of us would agree is poor he isn't playing hockey anyway. Same with baseball now that it's pretty much mandatory to go the AAU route if you want to get anywhere. The kids from limited means are still gravitating towards football and basketball.

Seriously. How many stories do you see about hockey players that came from tough backgrounds in today's world? Those stories are a dime a dozen with football and basketball. Hockey? Can't remember the last time I heard one.

Money sport. More now than ever before.
ummmm....Eichel is one. Came from extremely modest means. I'm sure you can remember that one. Kinda puts a pretty big hole in your argument....

Re: Rich or poor

Anon
Anon
If a kid is truly poor, or what most of us would agree is poor he isn\'t playing hockey anyway. Same with baseball now that it\'s pretty much mandatory to go the AAU route if you want to get anywhere. The kids from limited means are still gravitating towards football and basketball.

Seriously. How many stories do you see about hockey players that came from tough backgrounds in today\'s world? Those stories are a dime a dozen with football and basketball. Hockey? Can\'t remember the last time I heard one.

Money sport. More now than ever before.
ummmm....Eichel is one. Came from extremely modest means. I'm sure you can remember that one. Kinda puts a pretty big hole in your argument....
Oh, stop it!

Eichel came from modest means only measured by most high end kids who come from wealthy backgrounds. He didn't grow up with just a single mother in a housing project.

The argument is sound. Hockey is a money sport. It has been for quite a while now. To say otherwise is ignoring the obvious.

Re: Rich or poor

we agree that hockey is expensive, so we assume those with more of it will have a better opportunity to succeed. and in a vacuum that should hold but... those with more money have OTHER opportunities: 'sorry can't play this weekend, heading to the family condo for a ski vacation in Vail' ok fine Loon. middle and upper middle tend to have enough for 1 thing, so they pour it on - hockey. rich - have hockey, skiing, vacation condos, music lessons... more importantly rich tend to see sports as exercise, for socializing and college application building. they chose colleges based on the major, campus or 'my dad went there and his dad and his dad and...'.

HBO real sports did a story on the explosion of youth baseball tournaments. they met a family that went every weekend to another state for another round of games in hopes of getting that coveted college scholarship. the reporter ask how much they spent - estimated about $100k over the past 10 years. when the reporter said 'that would cover two years at a very good state school' they were unable to even comprehend it. the rich? would use some of that $100k on a sport, but use most of it to buy a duplex and generate cash flow to offset the expenses and later use the equity to buy another (and another).

Re: Rich or poor

beatcuff
we agree that hockey is expensive, so we assume those with more of it will have a better opportunity to succeed. and in a vacuum that should hold but... those with more money have OTHER opportunities: 'sorry can't play this weekend, heading to the family condo for a ski vacation in Vail' ok fine Loon. middle and upper middle tend to have enough for 1 thing, so they pour it on - hockey. rich - have hockey, skiing, vacation condos, music lessons... more importantly rich tend to see sports as exercise, for socializing and college application building. they chose colleges based on the major, campus or 'my dad went there and his dad and his dad and...'.

HBO real sports did a story on the explosion of youth baseball tournaments. they met a family that went every weekend to another state for another round of games in hopes of getting that coveted college scholarship. the reporter ask how much they spent - estimated about $100k over the past 10 years. when the reporter said 'that would cover two years at a very good state school' they were unable to even comprehend it. the rich? would use some of that $100k on a sport, but use most of it to buy a duplex and generate cash flow to offset the expenses and later use the equity to buy another (and another).
I can tell from your description of outdated stereotypes you aren't rich, or candidly close to it. You've described none of the behaviors I've experienced dealing regularly with wealthy hockey parents or wealthy parents in general.

Re: Rich or poor

Anon
beatcuff
we agree that hockey is expensive, so we assume those with more of it will have a better opportunity to succeed. and in a vacuum that should hold but... those with more money have OTHER opportunities: \'sorry can\'t play this weekend, heading to the family condo for a ski vacation in Vail\' ok fine Loon. middle and upper middle tend to have enough for 1 thing, so they pour it on - hockey. rich - have hockey, skiing, vacation condos, music lessons... more importantly rich tend to see sports as exercise, for socializing and college application building. they chose colleges based on the major, campus or \'my dad went there and his dad and his dad and...\'.

HBO real sports did a story on the explosion of youth baseball tournaments. they met a family that went every weekend to another state for another round of games in hopes of getting that coveted college scholarship. the reporter ask how much they spent - estimated about \$100k over the past 10 years. when the reporter said \'that would cover two years at a very good state school\' they were unable to even comprehend it. the rich? would use some of that \$100k on a sport, but use most of it to buy a duplex and generate cash flow to offset the expenses and later use the equity to buy another (and another).
I can tell from your description of outdated stereotypes you aren't rich, or candidly close to it. You've described none of the behaviors I've experienced dealing regularly with wealthy hockey parents or wealthy parents in general.

Yeah, that's not what rich people do. There are plenty of wealthy families that make that similar level of commitment to sports, only they are paying for private instruction where others can't afford that level of coaching assistance. They might not always flaunt it, but believe me that's what's happening. The rest of us are just trying to keep up.

Re: Rich or poor

anon
Anon
beatcuff
we agree that hockey is expensive, so we assume those with more of it will have a better opportunity to succeed. and in a vacuum that should hold but... those with more money have OTHER opportunities: \\\'sorry can\\\'t play this weekend, heading to the family condo for a ski vacation in Vail\\\' ok fine Loon. middle and upper middle tend to have enough for 1 thing, so they pour it on - hockey. rich - have hockey, skiing, vacation condos, music lessons... more importantly rich tend to see sports as exercise, for socializing and college application building. they chose colleges based on the major, campus or \\\'my dad went there and his dad and his dad and...\\\'.

HBO real sports did a story on the explosion of youth baseball tournaments. they met a family that went every weekend to another state for another round of games in hopes of getting that coveted college scholarship. the reporter ask how much they spent - estimated about \\\$100k over the past 10 years. when the reporter said \\\'that would cover two years at a very good state school\\\' they were unable to even comprehend it. the rich? would use some of that \\\$100k on a sport, but use most of it to buy a duplex and generate cash flow to offset the expenses and later use the equity to buy another (and another).
I can tell from your description of outdated stereotypes you aren\'t rich, or candidly close to it. You\'ve described none of the behaviors I\'ve experienced dealing regularly with wealthy hockey parents or wealthy parents in general.

Yeah, that's not what rich people do. There are plenty of wealthy families that make that similar level of commitment to sports, only they are paying for private instruction where others can't afford that level of coaching assistance. They might not always flaunt it, but believe me that's what's happening. The rest of us are just trying to keep up.
Private instruction fuels a kid's passion for the sport. He gets positive feedback that overcomes the negativity of coaches. It allows him to feel better about his game. It provides the advantage of accelerated development since the coach - assuming he is good - can work on removing or at least minimizing the specific weaknesses in a kid's game.

Wealthy people also tend to have fewer kids. A child in a wealthy family that doesn't have siblings will have an even greater advantage.

It's hard for a kid in a true lower class (in socioeconomic terms - plenty of youth hockey families have NO class) to make it all the way in hockey. It's an expensive sport, right out of the box. Lower middle, maybe, but it will require a lot of sacrifice. Keep moving up, the advantages accelerate.

Re: Rich or poor

Anon
Private instruction fuels a kid's passion for the sport. He gets positive feedback that overcomes the negativity of coaches. It allows him to feel better about his game. It provides the advantage of accelerated development since the coach - assuming he is good - can work on removing or at least minimizing the specific weaknesses in a kid's game.

Wealthy people also tend to have fewer kids. A child in a wealthy family that doesn't have siblings will have an even greater advantage.

It's hard for a kid in a true lower class (in socioeconomic terms - plenty of youth hockey families have NO class) to make it all the way in hockey. It's an expensive sport, right out of the box. Lower middle, maybe, but it will require a lot of sacrifice. Keep moving up, the advantages accelerate.
i agree (that wealth increases the degree of success) but i disagree it is linear and certainly disagree is it exponential. there is a tipping point at which distractions, differing goals and health concerns cause the emphasis and therefore success (in sports) to wane. where is that point, it is not well defined but it appears to be around the point when parents stop saying 'i'm not getting up that early' to 'aren't you concerned about concussions'.

Re: Rich or poor

beatcuff
Anon
Private instruction fuels a kid's passion for the sport. He gets positive feedback that overcomes the negativity of coaches. It allows him to feel better about his game. It provides the advantage of accelerated development since the coach - assuming he is good - can work on removing or at least minimizing the specific weaknesses in a kid's game.

Wealthy people also tend to have fewer kids. A child in a wealthy family that doesn't have siblings will have an even greater advantage.

It's hard for a kid in a true lower class (in socioeconomic terms - plenty of youth hockey families have NO class) to make it all the way in hockey. It's an expensive sport, right out of the box. Lower middle, maybe, but it will require a lot of sacrifice. Keep moving up, the advantages accelerate.
i agree (that wealth increases the degree of success) but i disagree it is linear and certainly disagree is it exponential. there is a tipping point at which distractions, differing goals and health concerns cause the emphasis and therefore success (in sports) to wane. where is that point, it is not well defined but it appears to be around the point when parents stop saying 'i'm not getting up that early' to 'aren't you concerned about concussions'.
any parent who says, "I don't want to get up early" is out of the sport before squirts. You don't last long with that attitude.

The concussion thing is a bit more complicated. If your kid is making any inroads in the sport you're more likely to ignore all but the most serious of concussions. When people invest years of time and money and enjoy the accolades and bragging rights for any success their kid has they're likely to kick the can down the road when it comes to health concerns.

Part of the money aspect for this sport is no one wants their kid to fall behind. A lot of times common sense and good parental judgement take a back seat.

Re: Rich or poor

Anon
anon
You\'re welcome and I did give a binary answer to devolving question. It is not a rich kids sport, it\'s a middle class sport with families willing to commit available resources but some people see a family making 200K a year & assume they are \"rich\" so I thought it important to add some context.

Please return to reading your \"graphic novel\" as I realize all these words are giving you a headache.
Q: Two kids, one rich, one poor. Equal skill. Which one makes it?

A: "I know plenty of players that have come from middle income families that have done quite well in the sport."

Yeah, spot on. Really nailed it.

You must be a Libertarian.
I see the problem..too many words on the page for you to actually follow along with the entire thread. You read the first post and proceeded directly to bottom so you wouldn't get confused.

Understanding that, I'll recap for you. The discussion had move in a slightly different direction than the original post to a rich vs. poor. I can't put bubbles around the words like you are used to but I'm happy to add some familiar dialog in the synopsis if it helps you.

"As far hockey is concerned it is a rich kids game." POW!!
"Doesn't mean a kid from the lower/middle can never make it but it is one more obstacle to be overcome." KAZAAM!
"It's a money sport" BOOM!
"Rich kids' sport" SMACK!

Someone pointed out the JE didn't come from a rich family which I understand to be true. I also know it is true that he spent hours each summer on the ice in 1-1 and semi-private skating lessons from a relatively young age. Proving my point, that coming from a middle income family in and of itself is not a barrier to success, hence it's not a rich person's sport, but the family does have commit additional resources to their players development to maximize his/her potential. CRUNCH!


Re: Rich or poor

anon
Anon
anon
You\\\'re welcome and I did give a binary answer to devolving question. It is not a rich kids sport, it\\\'s a middle class sport with families willing to commit available resources but some people see a family making 200K a year & assume they are \\\"rich\\\" so I thought it important to add some context.

Please return to reading your \\\"graphic novel\\\" as I realize all these words are giving you a headache.
Q: Two kids, one rich, one poor. Equal skill. Which one makes it?

A: \"I know plenty of players that have come from middle income families that have done quite well in the sport.\"

Yeah, spot on. Really nailed it.

You must be a Libertarian.
I see the problem..too many words on the page for you to actually follow along with the entire thread. You read the first post and proceeded directly to bottom so you wouldn't get confused.

Understanding that, I'll recap for you. The discussion had move in a slightly different direction than the original post to a rich vs. poor. I can't put bubbles around the words like you are used to but I'm happy to add some familiar dialog in the synopsis if it helps you.

"As far hockey is concerned it is a rich kids game." POW!!
"Doesn't mean a kid from the lower/middle can never make it but it is one more obstacle to be overcome." KAZAAM!
"It's a money sport" BOOM!
"Rich kids' sport" SMACK!

Someone pointed out the JE didn't come from a rich family which I understand to be true. I also know it is true that he spent hours each summer on the ice in 1-1 and semi-private skating lessons from a relatively young age. Proving my point, that coming from a middle income family in and of itself is not a barrier to success, hence it's not a rich person's sport, but the family does have commit additional resources to their players development to maximize his/her potential. CRUNCH!


The guy's point is, rich or poor isn't a lead-in to a discussion mathematically defining middle class.

Sucks when you're the only one laughing at your own joke.

Re: Rich or poor

The gifted and intelligent athlete who bucks the boilerplate trend yet stays in the loop... Player navigating NE youth hockey on the cheap...will always be sought after. Managers and coaches are not wealthy people and very few Arron Ekblad's out there.

Re: Rich or poor

My wife and I are 43, 2 kids, 1 boy plays hockey and lax, 1 girl gymnastics and lax, we make $150K a year total and feel like the lower middle class when it comes to sports. Hockey tuition is about $6,500.00, travel, etc..another 4-5K per year, same with gymnastics. 23K for 2 sports, then lax. Son makes every team he's ever tried out for since mites, Top 40 selection in MA and was in the mix for USA Camp selection. Why do we do it you ask, I have no idea is the answer! I guess it makes the kids happy so we are happy and willing to give up vacations, house updates, new cars, etc..
I see many people confuse networking with financial status. What you don't have in cash, you have to make up with networking by doing the small things, be nice to people, ask for advice and listen, don't criticize and complain. Our financial status isn't that of most but my son has still had every opportunity to play and get recognized. To each their own I guess, but this has worked with us. Gotta run, working the skate shop today in exchange for some ice time.