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Youth Hockey
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Re: cheating illegal players

Here comes another millennial helicopter parent triggered because his kid lost another game. Blame everyone, blame anyone! You lost Dorothy, cry about it.

Re: cheating illegal players

tsk tsk
why do youth hockey coaches find it necessary to cheat by bringing in non rostered players?
To win. Do whatever it takes to win. Winning is so much more fun than losing. Winners win, losers lose. Nobody wants to be a loser. Win. Dumb question, obvious answer.

Re: cheating illegal players

It isn't allowed for teams to bring in ringers for their regular games only tournaments correct?

Re: cheating illegal players

Who cheated?

Re: cheating illegal players

Anon
Who cheated?
Flames Platinum 2010 had 2-3 kids jump on the bench during 2nd period.

Re: cheating illegal players

Does that mean they are illegal players? Could they be alternates coming from another game? Could they have been late?

Re: cheating illegal players

the whole alternate thing is BS and should be done away with. Play with your team. If you can't win then get new players for your roster.

Re: cheating illegal players

The alternate crap also causes problems for the full time teams that these kids play for. It's overall selfish - from both the alternate and the team allowing it. What is even more ridiculous is that it happens on '13, '14 and '15 teams.

Re: cheating illegal players

That is a different question but it doesn’t make them illegal

Re: cheating illegal players

ya, but isn't it all about the money and the more games Joey plays the better he get's!!!

Re: cheating illegal players

So they added non-roster players mid-game? That’s spectacular and some Coach-of-the-Year level cheating. How did you determine they were non-roster?

Re: cheating illegal players

Marv Marinovich
So they added non-roster players mid-game? That’s spectacular and some Coach-of-the-Year level cheating. How did you determine they were non-roster?
why do people always ask, how did you figure out? It's not hard to figure out...particularly if you know the team and have played them before.

Re: cheating illegal players

Because they could be rostered kids. Probably alternates. Doesn’t mean it’s cheating.

Re: cheating illegal players

Anon
Because they could be rostered kids. Probably alternates. Doesn’t mean it’s cheating.
I've seen it happen where they were not. If you are bringing kids not on your roster and it's not allowed then that is cheating. Even when it is allowed in tournaments it doesn't seem right particularly when kids are under 10.

Re: cheating illegal players

Anon
Because they could be rostered kids. Probably alternates. Doesn’t mean it’s cheating.
If your coach was smart, he'd have alternates too. All these team have a budget or a financial target to hit. Carrying 2 alternates at 1/2 price in addition to a full roster allows them to discount tuition for families with financial hardship or simply a reduced tuition to attract a better player. Alternates are good for business. The downside to alternates is they take up space and reduce the amount of practice time for the full-time players.

Re: cheating illegal players

A Non
Anon
Because they could be rostered kids. Probably alternates. Doesn’t mean it’s cheating.
If your coach was smart, he'd have alternates too. All these team have a budget or a financial target to hit. Carrying 2 alternates at 1/2 price in addition to a full roster allows them to discount tuition for families with financial hardship or simply a reduced tuition to attract a better player. Alternates are good for business. The downside to alternates is they take up space and reduce the amount of practice time for the full-time players.
Two maybe three or more is ridiculous. If he was good coach and not just a good guy the kids would play for him full time. Even better when some of the "alternates' played in parity for above mentioned team.

Re: cheating illegal players

I don’t disagree that bringing in non rostered players is illegal but you have to check before saying someone is cheating

Re: cheating illegal players

Anon
I don’t disagree that bringing in non rostered players is illegal but you have to check before saying someone is cheating
This is such a disingenuous argument. I've seen this play out for enough years to know how this goes. When you provide proof positive that a ringer doesn't belong on the team, these same people say "get a life, it's youth hockey, who cares?" Don't bother engaging. You can't change their minds. Some people get that it's a sh*tty thing to do to bring in non-rostered players for the must-win games, and others just don't get it. You have integrity or you don't.

Re: cheating illegal players

Anon
Anon
I don’t disagree that bringing in non rostered players is illegal but you have to check before saying someone is cheating
This is such a disingenuous argument. I've seen this play out for enough years to know how this goes. When you provide proof positive that a ringer doesn't belong on the team, these same people say "get a life, it's youth hockey, who cares?" Don't bother engaging. You can't change their minds. Some people get that it's a sh*tty thing to do to bring in non-rostered players for the must-win games, and others just don't get it. You have integrity or you don't.
But how would you know if they're non-rostered? Did you see a copy of the scoresheet or have access to gamesheet? Guessing no while you scream and judge from the balcony. Non-rostered players are one thing, and a clear sign of a moral compass deficiency, while egregious allegations without knowing exactly what's going on, is another.

Re: cheating illegal players

Anon
Anon
Anon
I don’t disagree that bringing in non rostered players is illegal but you have to check before saying someone is cheating
This is such a disingenuous argument. I\'ve seen this play out for enough years to know how this goes. When you provide proof positive that a ringer doesn\'t belong on the team, these same people say \"get a life, it\'s youth hockey, who cares?\" Don\'t bother engaging. You can\'t change their minds. Some people get that it\'s a sh*tty thing to do to bring in non-rostered players for the must-win games, and others just don\'t get it. You have integrity or you don\'t.
But how would you know if they're non-rostered? Did you see a copy of the scoresheet or have access to gamesheet? Guessing no while you scream and judge from the balcony. Non-rostered players are one thing, and a clear sign of a moral compass deficiency, while egregious allegations without knowing exactly what's going on, is another.
can't you just look up someone's roster on the site? Heck I've seen teams just let people know they're bringing in a ringer. People talk.

Re: cheating illegal players

Anon
Anon
I don’t disagree that bringing in non rostered players is illegal but you have to check before saying someone is cheating
This is such a disingenuous argument. I've seen this play out for enough years to know how this goes. When you provide proof positive that a ringer doesn't belong on the team, these same people say "get a life, it's youth hockey, who cares?" Don't bother engaging. You can't change their minds. Some people get that it's a sh*tty thing to do to bring in non-rostered players for the must-win games, and others just don't get it. You have integrity or you don't.
It seems like this is something the EHF simply doesn't care about. They enforce plenty of other things but not this.

Re: cheating illegal players

anon
Marv Marinovich
So they added non-roster players mid-game? That’s spectacular and some Coach-of-the-Year level cheating. How did you determine they were non-roster?
why do people always ask, how did you figure out? It's not hard to figure out...particularly if you know the team and have played them before.
I’m not doubting the cheating but your answer implies you’re either guessing or you have no clue.

Re: cheating illegal players

2011 BJT Platinum did it a few times in recent years. Lovell kids showing up to end of season games introducing themselves to their new “teammates” in the warm room while they tried to figure out what locker room to go in.

Re: cheating illegal players

Why would Lovell kids go to a platinum team

Re: cheating illegal players

Anon
Why would Lovell kids go to a platinum team
To see what real competition is like.

Re: cheating illegal players

Anonymous
Anon
Why would Lovell kids go to a platinum team
To see what real competition is like.
At the platinum level? Get real

Re: cheating illegal players

Anon
Anonymous
Anon
Why would Lovell kids go to a platinum team
To see what real competition is like.
At the platinum level? Get real
You get real buddy. Those platinum teams can beat any team Lovell has in American or ****ty national

Re: cheating illegal players

.

Re: cheating illegal players

2010 Platinum division looks really good. 5 top teams all separated by a few points.

Re: cheating illegal players

Consider it a first lesson on how corrupt hockey is. Learn it at the younger levels so you are not as disappointed at the High School/Prep/ Jr Levels because it gets much, much worse.

Re: cheating illegal players

Anon
Consider it a first lesson on how corrupt hockey is. Learn it at the younger levels so you are not as disappointed at the High School/Prep/ Jr Levels because it gets much, much worse.
Tell me your superstar didn't make his high school team freshman year without telling me

Re: cheating illegal players

ANON
2010 Platinum division looks really good. 5 top teams all separated by a few points.
That just means they all suck at a similar level.

Re: cheating illegal players

As a parent from the team the flames played I can tell you they didn't cheat. We knew those kids were coming late, half our kids play on middle school teams together. There was no reason for them to cheat. They outplayed us, they're a good team, there's no reason to disparage them especially when whoever posted this originally has no **** idea what they're talking about.

Re: cheating illegal players

Issues with Alternates seem to come from two places.

Internally - Parents that don't like when alternate Alex bumps full time Timmy off the 2nd line.

Externally - When proud organizations that have parents with high expectations lose a game they should have won, because a stud alternate showed up. Or, when a team is bringing in imports, and listeing them as full time players. While they live and play 200 miles away monday-friday.

Where I come from programs require coaches to sign a certain number of kids. 2 Alternates = 1 full time player. Let that sink in. One, sometimes two alternates, at practice are essentially paying the freight for a kid that would otherwise be at every practice and game. Alternates usually make half the practices and can only play 10 e9 games. And 15 ehf games. No playoffs for alternates in either league. Usually those 2 alternates would both be better than last pick Luke.

If you are the proud parent of a 9 year old, who's incredible team loses in a nail-biter because alternate Alex or jet set Johnny got a hat trick, I'm sorry. But please put it all into perspective. It's youth hockey. We should want our kids having fun, while playing with and against great competition.

Re: cheating illegal players

Heard that Patriots HC last weekend was caught using players not on the team and the refs called them on it. Perp walked the coach out of the building for cheating.

Re: cheating illegal players

Live Barn
Heard that Patriots HC last weekend was caught using players not on the team and the refs called them on it. Perp walked the coach out of the building for cheating.
Which Year?

Re: cheating illegal players

2010?

Re: cheating illegal players

Live Barn
Heard that Patriots HC last weekend was caught using players not on the team and the refs called them on it. Perp walked the coach out of the building for cheating.
2010 Patriots don't need to cheat they are a powerhouse. Our did you lose to many elite dads to EHF this year?

Re: cheating illegal players

at least 1 that makes them a "powerhouse" is rostered on fed elite team.
Isnt that no longer allowed

Re: cheating illegal players

I would think this isn't something that helps anyone in the long run. Winning games isn't everything. Winning games doesn't necessarily make someone a better player either. As a parent I'm more focused on how my own kid is progressing, not on whether he's on the best team according to MHR

Re: cheating illegal players

anon
I would think this isn\\\\\\\'t something that helps anyone in the long run. Winning games isn\\\\\\\'t everything. Winning games doesn\\\\\\\'t necessarily make someone a better player either. As a parent I\\\\\\\'m more focused on how my own kid is progressing, not on whether he\\\\\\\'s on the best team according to MHR
This is only done when the coach has an ego and makes the team about himself rather than the kids.

Re: cheating illegal players

Anon
anon
I would think this isn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t something that helps anyone in the long run. Winning games isn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t everything. Winning games doesn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t necessarily make someone a better player either. As a parent I\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'m more focused on how my own kid is progressing, not on whether he\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s on the best team according to MHR
This is only done when the coach has an ego and makes the team about himself rather than the kids.
It seems stupid. When you bring in a ringer everyone knows. We played a team that brought in a ringer who was very good and we still beat them.

Re: cheating illegal players

anon
at least 1 that makes them a \"powerhouse\" is rostered on fed elite team.
Isnt that no longer allowed
But why do you care where the players come from? EHF rules are not enforced by E9 nor they should be.
Nosey coaches and parents get upset when juniors team loses.

Re: cheating illegal players

anon
at least 1 that makes them a "powerhouse" is rostered on fed elite team.
Isnt that no longer allowed
No longer allowed? Just about every good E9 player is on a fed roster as an alternate.

Re: cheating illegal players

Anon
anon
at least 1 that makes them a \"powerhouse\" is rostered on fed elite team.
Isnt that no longer allowed
No longer allowed? Just about every good E9 player is on a fed roster as an alternate.
So if every fed team has alternates perhaps they should just call it a wash.

The question is why the need for alternates.

Re: cheating illegal players

anon
Anon
anon
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Isnt that no longer allowed
No longer allowed? Just about every good E9 player is on a fed roster as an alternate.
So if every fed team has alternates perhaps they should just call it a wash.

The question is why the need for alternates.
True alternates are not an issue.

True alternates generally pay a reduced tuition, practice with the team and play when they can. Might be their second team or might be hoping to join the team fulltime.

"Illegal" players or "undocu-mented" players don't pay tuition and the coach brings them in only to win and reduces the ice time of paying players.