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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MAINE MUSKIE!!

A lot of the native brook trout and salmon fisheries are in decline, but that does not mean people should "convert" them into fisheries for non native species. I wonder how many salmon or brook trout fry a 10# muskie could eat? Competition from invasive species is a huge problem, but I think increases in water temps and the longer warm weather season is also taking a toll. There is a massive ($10,000?) fine for illegal stockings in ME now. Illegal stockings of crappie and smallmouths are really a problem in central ME. Supporting a non native fishery provides incentives to keep that up. I think ME and other states should do all they can to curtail the success of these illegals, whether it be no creel / size limits or periodic electrofishing during the spawning cycles of the invasives. Its not about lemons and lemonade. Its about right and wrong. If this type of behavior keeps up in another generation there may be almost no native brook trout and other salmonid fisheries left without massive stocking and management.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MAINE MUSKIE!!

I think you are partially correct and partially wrong.

Landlocked salmon are an invasive. They were only native in 4 watersheds in Maine and were established in many others by bucket biologists and the State. Seems we made lemonade out of lemons there, especially when the size of native brook trout significantly declined in many water bodies due to the introduction.

IF&W has instituted longer seasons and kill all you catch. You can fish the St. John for musky until the end of October. Point being that few people traveled to fish the St. John River or Beau and Glazier lakes for those few precious cold water fish. Now lots do. It is completely about making lemonade out of lemons.

There was a huge effort to establish salmon in the St. John. Tons of taxpayer $$ went into a project that was a total flop. Musky are doing well. Do I want them in the Fish River or Allagash Chain? Nope. Are they here to stay, Yup. Live with it.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MAINE MUSKIE!!

My last sentence should have read, "We have to live with it."

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MAINE MUSKIE!!

The muskellunge in northern Maine did not originate by an illegal stocking by an individual but instead by intentional stocking by the Canadian Gov in Lac Frontiere in the late 1960's. While I completely agree that illegal introduction by individuals is inexcusable, this is a somewhat different situation. While I would also be concerned about the affect of non-native species in the St John watershed, the reality is that most of our gamefish are non-native. Rainbow trout (western US), landlocked salmon (4 watersheds in ME), brown trout (Germany) are introductions, while our only natives are brookies and lakers. I do think that while we should not expand the range of new non-native species, it also makes sense to take advantage of this new fishing opportunity. If anyone is interested, I found this report of musky management issues on the ME Gov site.

http://mainegov-images.informe.org/ifw/fishing/managementplans/muskellunge.pdf

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MAINE MUSKIE!!

Actually the "4 watershed" tag on the ME salmon only refers to four watersheds that have had documented sea run / spawing salmon populations, not landlocked salmon populations per se. Salmon or LLS were / still are widespread throughout ME, but most populations are no longer self sustaining let alone sea run, largely do to dams and competition / predation of fry by non-native species like perch and bass. Some got "left behind" in interior lakes after the last glaciation and of course many more became "landlocked" when dams were constructed. Rainbows and browns are obviously not native. The Canadian Govt.'s introduction of muskies to the North is largely viewed by fisheries biologists as a mistake at best, a disaster in progress at worst. The idea that we should be judging a remote ME fishery or watershead area by how many people fish or "enjoy" it is too people focused and short sighted. We need to leave some of these habitats alone, period -- the fewer people that disturb some of them the better.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MAINE MUSKIE!!

Landlocked salmon occurred naturally in the St. Croix, Penobscot, Presumscot, and Union River watersheds. They were first artifically stocked by the state in Cathance Lake. Currently there are 170+- lakes that support salmon fisheries of which 49 have naturally reproducing populations. So when you go to Moosehead you are benefitting from a fishery that was created by the State of Maine. I'll bet the campowners, guides, and shops aren't too concerned that salmon were there naturally and are happy to take your money.

Do I wish musky were not here in northern Maine? Yes. Do I think there is anything that we can do about it? Nope. Am I happy that the region is benefitting from them economically, You bet.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MAINE MUSKIE!!

According to local guides, salmon were in Moosehead and many other lakes prior to the construction of dams, meaning prior to about 1900 if not even a little earlier...While most of these inland fisheries are NOW supported by stocking, they were NOT necessarily created by stocking. LLS, lakers and brookies were all indigenous to Moosehead and many other inland water bodies...some for thousands of years. I don't know where are you getting this info from but its not accurate. These fish have been around a lot longer than the 100 years or so we've been keeping records...Each glacial cycle has left some "trapped" inland, the dams more recently.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MAINE MUSKIE!!

Geez... look what happens when you post a picture of a Maine muskie.
Nice fish... must have been a great fight and FUN to catch. I've never caught one, but seems like it would be a blast fishing for them.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MAINE MUSKIE!!

Sorry slip. If it had been a Great Lakes muskie I would not have anything to say other than "great." I just can't see any good in Muskies invading Maine waters, not with the decline in sea run Salmon already such a big problem...Eric

P.S. Jay -- there is strong evidence that were historical salmon runs in the Kennebec (very good evidence actually) and perhaps the Adroscoggin as well (iffy evidence). A historical salmon run in the Kennebec would have led them to Moosehead, Brassua and First Roach and most likely many other smaller but deep lakes in central ME connected to the Kennebec drainage. The claim that salmon were in only "four" watersheds before stocking is dated and based more on politics than science at this point...Basically acknowleding a salmon run in the Kennebec would give credence to the "Friend's of Kennebec" goal to remove dams on the Kennebec and there is no $ from the Feds or state of ME to do that.

Am I partial to salmon or what?