I did a little more digging on the subject of whirling disease. I found this link to a USGS site on a study of whirling disease in salmonids:

http://www.lsc.usgs.gov/SPN.asp?StudyPlanNum=01109

First, there is a lot of information out there that suggests that lake trout are either resistant to whirling disease or that they simply can't get the disease... However, we have the obvious -- that is Salty / Grey Ghost's encounter with the sick laker that appeared to have whirling disease (several others posted they had run into similar sick and deformed lakers). I would go so far as to say Grey Ghost's picture shows a classic case of whirling disease. So, not only can lakers get whirling disease, they've got it in Winni.

I was curious about the latest known information concerning whirling disease in lake trout. The above link to a USGS project is very interesting. What they discovered is that despite finding no "Myxbolus cerebralis" (whirling disease parasite) spores in lakers that had been exposed to the infectious life stage of the parasite, all of the lakers exposed to Myxbolus cerebralis tested positive for the parasite by PCR (a DNA fingerprinting technique). What this tells me is that while lakers are more resistant, they can and do get infected. The discrepancy between the PCR (DNA) results and the lack of observed spores suggest that it simply takes a longer time for the parasite to establish itself in lakers vs. other salmonids.

No matter what, the presence of whirling disease in Winni lake trout should be a real concern, and we should do our best to keep on top of this through the board and hopefully with some help from John Viar's group. I strongly urge all fishermen and women to "remove" all diseased / deformed fish (regardless of size), place them in a zip lock bag and get them to a NH fisheries biologist. Spores can spread from diseased fish many ways, including by close contact (schooling?) with other fish, by being eaten by larger fish. The spores are released to the water / sediment when the fish dies. Rainbows and salmon are reportedly more susceptible to this disease than lakers, so finding whirling disease in lakers should be a real wake up call for the Winni fishery. We need to get any diseased fish caught into the biologists to check them out.

Eric H.

was wondering if you have caught any lakers lately , alot of the ones I have caught in the past month have had a little white parasite attached through the skin of the lakers wondering if you or anyone else have seen this and know what they are . "reel it in"

Nope, but I noticed the parasites (worms) we saw, really only this past Spring, were gone.

By the way, you got a nice looking boat.

John S.

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Replying to:

was wondering if you have caught any lakers lately , alot of the ones I have caught in the past month have had a little white parasite attached through the skin of the lakers wondering if you or anyone else have seen this and know what they are . "reel it in"

Before the deformity is accepted as whirling disease, maybe one should ask--if rainbows and salmon are much more suseptible to the disease than lakers, why is it that it so far it has only exhibited itself in lakers.
Has anyone seen this in bows and salmon/
Cal

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Replying to:

I did a little more digging on the subject of whirling disease. I found this link to a USGS site on a study of whirling disease in salmonids:

http://www.lsc.usgs.gov/SPN.asp?StudyPlanNum=01109

First, there is a lot of information out there that suggests that lake trout are either resistant to whirling disease or that they simply can't get the disease... However, we have the obvious -- that is Salty / Grey Ghost's encounter with the sick laker that appeared to have whirling disease (several others posted they had run into similar sick and deformed lakers). I would go so far as to say Grey Ghost's picture shows a classic case of whirling disease. So, not only can lakers get whirling disease, they've got it in Winni.

I was curious about the latest known information concerning whirling disease in lake trout. The above link to a USGS project is very interesting. What they discovered is that despite finding no "Myxbolus cerebralis" (whirling disease parasite) spores in lakers that had been exposed to the infectious life stage of the parasite, all of the lakers exposed to Myxbolus cerebralis tested positive for the parasite by PCR (a DNA fingerprinting technique). What this tells me is that while lakers are more resistant, they can and do get infected. The discrepancy between the PCR (DNA) results and the lack of observed spores suggest that it simply takes a longer time for the parasite to establish itself in lakers vs. other salmonids.

No matter what, the presence of whirling disease in Winni lake trout should be a real concern, and we should do our best to keep on top of this through the board and hopefully with some help from John Viar's group. I strongly urge all fishermen and women to "remove" all diseased / deformed fish (regardless of size), place them in a zip lock bag and get them to a NH fisheries biologist. Spores can spread from diseased fish many ways, including by close contact (schooling?) with other fish, by being eaten by larger fish. The spores are released to the water / sediment when the fish dies. Rainbows and salmon are reportedly more susceptible to this disease than lakers, so finding whirling disease in lakers should be a real wake up call for the Winni fishery. We need to get any diseased fish caught into the biologists to check them out.

Eric H.

not sure about anyone else but until John Viar or another respectable F&G person tells me i can keep an (deformed) undersized fish I'm personally not gonna do it. I went 2 years with little or No fishing due to injury and i surely am not going to take the chance of losing my fishing license while all of my friends are catching the beloved fish we all chase Just my 2 Cents but that's how i feel Take Care God Bless and Good Hunting LOL Dave From up North

Whitecap, I agree that it takes a lot more than a picture to confirm this as Whirling disease. You don't diagnose cancer by a spot on an x-ray. I agree its suspicious but certainly not confirmed. If this is whirling disease it would be the first time it is described in Winni and it would be the first time that the infection is found in a wild population of lake trout (some laboratory infection in lakers but not in the wild...based on what I can find online). This would have great implications for fisheries biologists to study and learn from these fish.
However, the answer to why only lakers, IF this is Whirling disease might well be that the protozoan that causes this disease infects fish at the "fry" stage and the rainbows and salmon are stocked larger than fry. The naturally reproducing lakers would grow in the lake and their fry would be exposed to the infection. That being said, I need more information before I am convinced. I e-mailed John Viar and will share his response. If he asks me to save affected lake trout for further study, than I will do so.....Until then, we can only wonder.

Thats a good point White Cap -- the disease should be confirmed by a fisheries biologist, so we should spread the word to all to be on the lookout and if they catch one of these potential whirling-disease fish.

Anyone's guess might be as good as my ideas on why lakers and not 'bows, salmon. And on that note, has anyone seen this type of thing in 'bows or salmon..?

One thing that could explain why lakers are getting it is that they spend more time on the bottom in close proximity to potentially infected sediments, where the spores and other life stages are active. The parasite has a life stage in a secondary host -- the tubifex worm -- which is a bottom / sediment dweller.

Salmo - the bottom dwelling nature (spawn on bottom too) of lakers makes infection at the fry stage very plausible. That plus the proximity of both adult and fry lakers to infected sediment as part of their behavior / habit. The bottom dwelling nature of lakers, and the potential exposure associated with this behavior, may be why that of all the salmonid species lakers appear to have developed the strongest resistance to the parasite. That resistance means it may take the parasite a lot longer to "incubate" and establish viable and visible spores and ultimately to produce the characteristic spinal deformity.

Aside from the 'bows and salmon being stocked at larger size, they don't live as long as the lakers and they don't spend as much time on the bottom, so they have a lower / shorter exposure to potential infected sediments.

The point of my post is that we should be extra alert and gather more information and take what action we can to help the fishery. Gray Ghost's picture, while not conclusive in and of itself, shows a deformity that is exactly like that produced by the cranial / spinal cartilidge infection of the swirling-disease parasite. Its also been observed by others, including by Adrien in a large fish (11# if my memory is right?). The deformity in a large fish would suggest a long incubation time that is consistent with the fact lakers are known to be resistant. It could also be an infection by a different parasite but one that has a similar life cycle / infection target (?). Whatever the case, we should be on the lookout and get these diseased fish in for examination.

I understand LOL Dave's concern about his license but I have not met a fisheries person yet that would ticket you for being vigilant and removing diseased fish from the water. But in the absence of a NH fisheries blessing to a "remove all diseased fish" policy, I guess there's always that risk that someone in the field will write you up. I'm willing to take the risk and explain myself later (or try to) but I also understand why others would not want to. Perphaps an interim solution pending comment from NH fisheries is to at least remove fish of "keeper" length and if you don't want to keep smaller deformed / diseased fish just take a picture and as detailed notes as you can to report later. Keep in mind its a way we can help the fishery. We may never cure a disease like this but may be able to slow its spread. By marking the locations, depths, etc. of any such fish caught over time we may also be able to pinpoint certain locations where the parasite has taken hold in the underlying sediment.

This disease causes cranial deformities IE;no upper
jaw, as well as other skeletal deformities on two
of our outings this past season we caught a juvenile
salmon IE;12 to 14" that indeed had this deformitie
in the cranial area, both of these fish had no upper jaw it was recessed and they had a pronounced forehead
with a hair-lip if you will. It has beed my thought
that theses fish maybe responsible for the increased
number of ghost releases in the past few years.

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Replying to:

Before the deformity is accepted as whirling disease, maybe one should ask--if rainbows and salmon are much more suseptible to the disease than lakers, why is it that it so far it has only exhibited itself in lakers.
Has anyone seen this in bows and salmon/
Cal

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

I did a little more digging on the subject of whirling disease. I found this link to a USGS site on a study of whirling disease in salmonids:

http://www.lsc.usgs.gov/SPN.asp?StudyPlanNum=01109

First, there is a lot of information out there that suggests that lake trout are either resistant to whirling disease or that they simply can't get the disease... However, we have the obvious -- that is Salty / Grey Ghost's encounter with the sick laker that appeared to have whirling disease (several others posted they had run into similar sick and deformed lakers). I would go so far as to say Grey Ghost's picture shows a classic case of whirling disease. So, not only can lakers get whirling disease, they've got it in Winni.

I was curious about the latest known information concerning whirling disease in lake trout. The above link to a USGS project is very interesting. What they discovered is that despite finding no "Myxbolus cerebralis" (whirling disease parasite) spores in lakers that had been exposed to the infectious life stage of the parasite, all of the lakers exposed to Myxbolus cerebralis tested positive for the parasite by PCR (a DNA fingerprinting technique). What this tells me is that while lakers are more resistant, they can and do get infected. The discrepancy between the PCR (DNA) results and the lack of observed spores suggest that it simply takes a longer time for the parasite to establish itself in lakers vs. other salmonids.

No matter what, the presence of whirling disease in Winni lake trout should be a real concern, and we should do our best to keep on top of this through the board and hopefully with some help from John Viar's group. I strongly urge all fishermen and women to "remove" all diseased / deformed fish (regardless of size), place them in a zip lock bag and get them to a NH fisheries biologist. Spores can spread from diseased fish many ways, including by close contact (schooling?) with other fish, by being eaten by larger fish. The spores are released to the water / sediment when the fish dies. Rainbows and salmon are reportedly more susceptible to this disease than lakers, so finding whirling disease in lakers should be a real wake up call for the Winni fishery. We need to get any diseased fish caught into the biologists to check them out.

Eric H.

Silent Partner couldn't those deformities have been a result of being caught before and a bad release or thrown the hook and tore the jaw off?
Cal

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Replying to:

This disease causes cranial deformities IE;no upper
jaw, as well as other skeletal deformities on two
of our outings this past season we caught a juvenile
salmon IE;12 to 14" that indeed had this deformitie
in the cranial area, both of these fish had no upper jaw it was recessed and they had a pronounced forehead
with a hair-lip if you will. It has beed my thought
that theses fish maybe responsible for the increased
number of ghost releases in the past few years.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Before the deformity is accepted as whirling disease, maybe one should ask--if rainbows and salmon are much more suseptible to the disease than lakers, why is it that it so far it has only exhibited itself in lakers.
Has anyone seen this in bows and salmon/
Cal

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

I did a little more digging on the subject of whirling disease. I found this link to a USGS site on a study of whirling disease in salmonids:

http://www.lsc.usgs.gov/SPN.asp?StudyPlanNum=01109

First, there is a lot of information out there that suggests that lake trout are either resistant to whirling disease or that they simply can't get the disease... However, we have the obvious -- that is Salty / Grey Ghost's encounter with the sick laker that appeared to have whirling disease (several others posted they had run into similar sick and deformed lakers). I would go so far as to say Grey Ghost's picture shows a classic case of whirling disease. So, not only can lakers get whirling disease, they've got it in Winni.

I was curious about the latest known information concerning whirling disease in lake trout. The above link to a USGS project is very interesting. What they discovered is that despite finding no "Myxbolus cerebralis" (whirling disease parasite) spores in lakers that had been exposed to the infectious life stage of the parasite, all of the lakers exposed to Myxbolus cerebralis tested positive for the parasite by PCR (a DNA fingerprinting technique). What this tells me is that while lakers are more resistant, they can and do get infected. The discrepancy between the PCR (DNA) results and the lack of observed spores suggest that it simply takes a longer time for the parasite to establish itself in lakers vs. other salmonids.

No matter what, the presence of whirling disease in Winni lake trout should be a real concern, and we should do our best to keep on top of this through the board and hopefully with some help from John Viar's group. I strongly urge all fishermen and women to "remove" all diseased / deformed fish (regardless of size), place them in a zip lock bag and get them to a NH fisheries biologist. Spores can spread from diseased fish many ways, including by close contact (schooling?) with other fish, by being eaten by larger fish. The spores are released to the water / sediment when the fish dies. Rainbows and salmon are reportedly more susceptible to this disease than lakers, so finding whirling disease in lakers should be a real wake up call for the Winni fishery. We need to get any diseased fish caught into the biologists to check them out.

Eric H.

That was my first thought, but after more
research its my opinion that indeed these fish
have classic signs of this horrible disease
known as whirling disease.

Hence my concerns. Grey Ghost's pic is spot on for whirling disease. I know its weird, and perhaps unheard of in lakers, but it is what it is. I'm not happy about it either. Lets do what we can to investigate this further. White Cap -- you and all the other RFPs and the pros and other serious amateurs are the real eyes and ears of Winni and your observations out on the lake will be invaluable. I might be able to do some lab work here at my shop, but I think the first line of attack is to get diseased / deformed fish examined by NH fisheries biologists.

i remember reading that whirling disease isnt much of a problem for new england, something about the acidity of our water. i could be wrong, but are we experiencing it here.

Sites I have found show all New England states except ME and RI. Has been found in lower Merrimack River in NH for quite some time.

Hey there Fishlessman, How did ya do on the last weekend up at Sebago????? P.S. can you Ice Fish on Sebago in the winter????? Talk Soon, Take Care God Bless and Good Hunting LOL Dave From up North

one small salmon, one nice one about 4 pounds, maybe a little less. if sebago freezes you can go after the lakers. havent tried it yet since im a little new to the area, and last year i wasnt too comfortable with the ice. been reading that hancock pond down the road is managed only for browns and that long lake produces well.