****, I just wrote a book and lost it, again. I'll write a condensed version.

Thanks Adrien for clearing up some confusion for me, I guess my harvesting 5 pounders (or bigger) is not detrimental to the fishery and I have been doing exactly as you suggested and putting back anything not close to 5, say 4.5 or less.

Now seeing that the Winni fisherman are more apt at catchin fish these days, and it seems this message board is getting the blame, maybe we can as a group do something to insure the future. We could push for longer length limits, but that was tried on Squam and I guess was counter-productive so they went back to 15". Or we could really push for catch and release or as you say, put the 2, 3 and maybe 4 pounders back.
Maybe allow and push for more Lakers to be taken out to leave more food for the Salmon.

I guess what we need is some good direction from Fish and Game as to what is needed from us if in fact the Lake is in trouble or headed in that direction.. I'm sure 90% of people on this web site would do whatever had to be done to insure the future of Winni and any other Salmon Lake in NH for that matter..

John S.

YoAdrien is there a way to put a slot limit on the salmon like they do for laker and like stripers?Wouldn't that be a way to keep the younger fish in the lake? I agree with the fishing pressure is getting bigger.The lake My folks live on in maine had huge salmon in it when we first got the place in 1983 but now your lucky if you see a 4 lber come out of there and that is very rare.I don't have a problem throwing every thing back as long as they swim away on there own.I would hate to see Winn end up like my folks place.Just my 2 cents.

Erin

I am no biologist but i have been told that while slot limits are good tools they are not always effective because of the amount of stress put on fish that are close to the slot limit. when the limit is 2 15" salmon there isn't much question if the fish is legal or not. you can tell before you net it if it is a keeper or not and if you are going to throw it back.

When there is a slot limit, let's say for sake of arguement that all fish between 19-21 inches or (2.5-4 lbs) have to go back. People will be netting them and then playing with them in the boat trying to make them stop flopping while trying to measure and double check and then they drop them on the floor of the boat and pop an eye or smash it's head before the fish calms down enough to get a good measurement for them to see it is 20 and 7/8 inches and has to go back and now it's either dead or severely hurt and may swim away but never grow to it's potential because of stress injury's.

I don't think that the fishery is in danger from the # of fish people are keeping, but rather people not being careful and keeping 2 but also killing 5 by mistake.

If i were in charge of making rules for fishing the first one would be to mandate the use of rubber nets on all fish in state of new hampshire, period.

It is going to be interesting to see how this falls netting goes as in the number of wounded fish that are netted compared to years past.

YoAdrien you make alot of since There would be alot more hands on the fish if there was a slot.I never thought of it that way.But there probable will be a high death rate the more thay are handled.I also agree on all the nets being rubber.It's so much easer to get the hook out and the fish back in the water.Thanks for the feed back.

Erin

Boy I hope we (everyone) is wrong about the death or growth rate of miss-handled or even properly handled fish. If that's realy the case Adrien, you may have killed 100's on your trips to Maine with the Fish and Game, etc. Don't say you allways handle them properly and yours don't die or get stunted due to injury. If they are as sensitive as we say, no amount of proper care will be 100% effective for the well being of the Salmon.. I allways feel if they lay there for a bit and then make a mad dash for the deeps they are OK, I hope I'm right, or near right.

I think (hope) more survive than we estimate, otherwise we would see them floating all over the Lake. I do agree that they do suffer in many other ways and probably don't grow properly as indicated by netting results, I've witnessed this myself.

Now what about Lakers and Bows, are they as sensitve and fragile as Salmon ??? And while were on the subject, why is it Bass don't seem to be phased at all when caught, even when hooked deep. Any given weekend day on Winni, maybe several 100 are caught and released and caught again. I don't realy recall seeing many (any) that showed hook marks from being hooked before. do they heal quicker/better ???? Or do all of them end up on the bottom of the Lake.

One thing we can agree on is if the Lake is in trouble, a fix needs to be found and put into effect.

John S.

Bottom line is how good is catch and release in general ??? We like to think we are doing the right thing, but we are killing or maming (spelling)
every fish we put back.

There is a solution, but nobody will want to hear it.

John S.

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Replying to:

I am no biologist but i have been told that while slot limits are good tools they are not always effective because of the amount of stress put on fish that are close to the slot limit. when the limit is 2 15" salmon there isn't much question if the fish is legal or not. you can tell before you net it if it is a keeper or not and if you are going to throw it back.

When there is a slot limit, let's say for sake of arguement that all fish between 19-21 inches or (2.5-4 lbs) have to go back. People will be netting them and then playing with them in the boat trying to make them stop flopping while trying to measure and double check and then they drop them on the floor of the boat and pop an eye or smash it's head before the fish calms down enough to get a good measurement for them to see it is 20 and 7/8 inches and has to go back and now it's either dead or severely hurt and may swim away but never grow to it's potential because of stress injury's.

I don't think that the fishery is in danger from the # of fish people are keeping, but rather people not being careful and keeping 2 but also killing 5 by mistake.

If i were in charge of making rules for fishing the first one would be to mandate the use of rubber nets on all fish in state of new hampshire, period.

It is going to be interesting to see how this falls netting goes as in the number of wounded fish that are netted compared to years past.

I never said i was perfect and i never said none of mine die, i said in another post here that i have killed fish by handling them poorly, and to add to that, usually dropping them on the deck. But i take as much care as humanly possibly short of not fishing at all to make sure they survive if they are released.

I have an 80 gallon livewell with all rounded corners and 3 pumps in it. It is so good at pumping oxygen that i can keep healthy salmon alive in it in 74 degree water for the whole day if it runs constantly. If i have a fish i suspect that may have been hurt then i put it in and turn it on. I give it a few hours and see how it is. sometimes they die in 10 minutes even if they seemed healthy when put in. and other times i open the lid after 8 hours and they are livelier than when they went in and go back like a shot. When you see as many salmon come in and out of a boat as i do you get a good idea what is going on.
Also if you put fish in there and at the end of the day decide to keep them you have to hit them on the head with a hammer (exaggeration) because they are so re-energized and livlier then when they went in. I have a small rubber net that fits into my livewell and can quickly pop the fish back in the lake in seconds, also the livewell is as smooth as glass with no sharp edges at all. I feel this is doing as much as i can to help the fish, but maybe i am wrong here and killing thousands, but it is the best i can do and that is all i am saying is that if we all do a little it goes a long way.

As far as the trips to maine are concerned, they are done under controlled circumstances with State Fisheries Biologists on board. I have a large tub of drugged water that the fish are quickly put to sleep in and handled while drugged so they are not injured during handling. The fish are then put into my livewell with all the pumps running and sometimes 20 salmon at a time are in there waking up and then they are released in as good of shape as possible. If any die then we keep them and eat them. I go once a year for 3 days and keep between 20-24 salmon / trout. The state of maine in return gets about $300 in fuel from me, a few meals at restaurants, a couple out of state licenses, a clean water sticker fee, a couple hotel stays, and my time as a volunteer for the health of the fishery, if they didn't think i was helping they wouldn't send me gifts and thank you letters for my time in helping them, but hey maybe i'm way off here?

Looks like you took it personal bud, I had a felling ya might, but realy not my intention at all. Let me read through your reply when I get back from the PO and I'll respond, apoligize or whatever is needed.

What I was trying to say was it seems we shoudn't be putting any fish back in at all if we are killing that many, unless undersize and that's the law.

Later,

John S.

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Replying to:

I never said i was perfect and i never said none of mine die, i said in another post here that i have killed fish by handling them poorly, and to add to that, usually dropping them on the deck. But i take as much care as humanly possibly short of not fishing at all to make sure they survive if they are released.

I have an 80 gallon livewell with all rounded corners and 3 pumps in it. It is so good at pumping oxygen that i can keep healthy salmon alive in it in 74 degree water for the whole day if it runs constantly. If i have a fish i suspect that may have been hurt then i put it in and turn it on. I give it a few hours and see how it is. sometimes they die in 10 minutes even if they seemed healthy when put in. and other times i open the lid after 8 hours and they are livelier than when they went in and go back like a shot. When you see as many salmon come in and out of a boat as i do you get a good idea what is going on.
Also if you put fish in there and at the end of the day decide to keep them you have to hit them on the head with a hammer (exaggeration) because they are so re-energized and livlier then when they went in. I have a small rubber net that fits into my livewell and can quickly pop the fish back in the lake in seconds, also the livewell is as smooth as glass with no sharp edges at all. I feel this is doing as much as i can to help the fish, but maybe i am wrong here and killing thousands, but it is the best i can do and that is all i am saying is that if we all do a little it goes a long way.

As far as the trips to maine are concerned, they are done under controlled circumstances with State Fisheries Biologists on board. I have a large tub of drugged water that the fish are quickly put to sleep in and handled while drugged so they are not injured during handling. The fish are then put into my livewell with all the pumps running and sometimes 20 salmon at a time are in there waking up and then they are released in as good of shape as possible. If any die then we keep them and eat them. I go once a year for 3 days and keep between 20-24 salmon / trout. The state of maine in return gets about $300 in fuel from me, a few meals at restaurants, a couple out of state licenses, a clean water sticker fee, a couple hotel stays, and my time as a volunteer for the health of the fishery, if they didn't think i was helping they wouldn't send me gifts and thank you letters for my time in helping them, but hey maybe i'm way off here?

The sentence below was flawed seriously. The amout of fish that die from being caught is about 5 out of about 100 we keep the ones that died but also keep 15-20 more that weren't going to die for our consumption under legal limits for 3-4 people over 3 days

""If any die then we keep them and eat them. I go once a year for 3 days and keep between 20-24 salmon / trout.""

Sorry Yo,

You don't have to defend yourself, your boat, trips to Maine with F & G, or whatever, least of all to me.
I've been on your boat, saw the live wells, etc. We all know how much care you give to the fish caught, whether released or not. Perhaps I used the wrong choice of words and I aplogize for doing so, nobody's perfect like you say and that includes me fer sure.

I was not meaning to point any fingers at you or anyone directly. It just seemed from your earlier statement "I don't think that the fishery is in danger from the # of fish people are keeping, but rather people not being careful and keeping 2 but also killing 5 by mistake." It seemed to me, the more we catch, the more we kill, by accident or not. And if Winni fisherman are getting better because of this web site as it been suggested by several, then we have a serious problem developing don't we ???

It was also said by others (not sure by who) that allot of Salmon we let go in fact do die, or are injured too seriously to thrive when released... I'm sure both these things happen, but to what extent.

All that being said, it prompted me to think well maybe not so many are being killed as people think. I never see many (any) floating around dead and quite a few I release myself that look hurtin, seem to perk up and take off in a flash.. I hope they are OK, they sure look OK. But if they are in fact dying, we need to get some diretion from F & G what we can do. We all know rubber nets are good, most of us use them, maybe they should be mandatory. It's a step in the right direction, but they aren't the cure all. We need to do more, but what ?

Like I said before, I know how we can make a "huge" difference, but nobody would want to hear it, including me..

Again I'm very sorry if I ruffled yur feathers a bit, it was the furthest from my intentions. In any case this subject is getting the attention it should and that's what I wanted to do in my post. We need to address it now, before it becomes a problem we can't fix. "If it aint broke, don't fix it", does not apply here, sometimes we fail to see something is "in fact broke or breaking".

Lastly, I also hate to hear (and repeat) what's been said about this web site, by several people now. That Fishlakewinni.com's message board may be the demise of Salmon fishin in Winni, by making average fisherman real fisherman.. Instead I'd like to think this web site and the people who use it, to be the work force towards a better future for Winni's Salmon fishery.

This web site should never be knocked the way it has, perhaps it did make allot of us better fisherman, but that isn't and should't be considered a bad thing.

The same people that made us all better fisherman will I'm certain take a charge and help preserve what we have.

John S.

John s.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

I never said i was perfect and i never said none of mine die, i said in another post here that i have killed fish by handling them poorly, and to add to that, usually dropping them on the deck. But i take as much care as humanly possibly short of not fishing at all to make sure they survive if they are released.

I have an 80 gallon livewell with all rounded corners and 3 pumps in it. It is so good at pumping oxygen that i can keep healthy salmon alive in it in 74 degree water for the whole day if it runs constantly. If i have a fish i suspect that may have been hurt then i put it in and turn it on. I give it a few hours and see how it is. sometimes they die in 10 minutes even if they seemed healthy when put in. and other times i open the lid after 8 hours and they are livelier than when they went in and go back like a shot. When you see as many salmon come in and out of a boat as i do you get a good idea what is going on.
Also if you put fish in there and at the end of the day decide to keep them you have to hit them on the head with a hammer (exaggeration) because they are so re-energized and livlier then when they went in. I have a small rubber net that fits into my livewell and can quickly pop the fish back in the lake in seconds, also the livewell is as smooth as glass with no sharp edges at all. I feel this is doing as much as i can to help the fish, but maybe i am wrong here and killing thousands, but it is the best i can do and that is all i am saying is that if we all do a little it goes a long way.

As far as the trips to maine are concerned, they are done under controlled circumstances with State Fisheries Biologists on board. I have a large tub of drugged water that the fish are quickly put to sleep in and handled while drugged so they are not injured during handling. The fish are then put into my livewell with all the pumps running and sometimes 20 salmon at a time are in there waking up and then they are released in as good of shape as possible. If any die then we keep them and eat them. I go once a year for 3 days and keep between 20-24 salmon / trout. The state of maine in return gets about $300 in fuel from me, a few meals at restaurants, a couple out of state licenses, a clean water sticker fee, a couple hotel stays, and my time as a volunteer for the health of the fishery, if they didn't think i was helping they wouldn't send me gifts and thank you letters for my time in helping them, but hey maybe i'm way off here?

My personal feelings Even with this awesome board unless i go out with one of you guys i can't seem to catch Squat on winni with my buddy Robert i can with all honesty say that our biggest day on winni is Maybe 6 fish, not quite sure why as all the other lakes we visit throughout the year we seem to do rather well on (with alot of help from this site in the past 2 years LOL) but for the oddest of reasons we've never had one of those killer days on Winni, Who know's maybe the boat has the smell of our old pulp mill or something and the northern lakes are used to the smell Beats the heck out of me but i know i long for a day when i can actually say i caught and released 10-15 fish on winni LOL I do agree with rubber nets 100%%%%% Take Care God Bless and Good Hunting LOL Dave From up North

YoAdrien what part of maine do you do you volunteer work in?That sounds like alot of fun to do stuff like that.

Erin

Aroostook County.

It really is a lot of fun.
I lived up there for 4 years and it is great to go back up and go fishing with old friends and help with the departments fisheries research all at the same time. Even gets my brother out with me because he lives up there and doesn't really come down that often with his business and all.

It may be my favorite trip of the year.

YoAdrien that's way up there isn't it?My floks live in maine also I fish long pond in belgrade all summer long.I love Maine I would love the retire there.As they say it's a peace of heaven.Winter can be hard but other than that it's a great place to play.

Erin

For a long time I thought excacty the same way as you, but now I have to disgree on the Salmon over 5 pounds, FROM WHAT I'M TOLD THOSE SHOULD BE THE KEEPERS.

Salmon "live fast and die young", quote from John Viar. Those 5 pounders are over the hill, they contribute little to the overall Salmon population and at the same time eat "allot" of bait. I used to feel these big guys have done well to survive this long, let's put em back, but I was wrong in my thinking. The fish that have a future in the Lake are the 2 to 4 pounders.

As far as Lakers go, you may be on to something. As they do add to the fishery in the way of spawning for real we should maybe protect the big breeders. But then again, how long are they productive ????? If til a ripe old age, I agree to protect them. At he same time, maybe we should have a seperate take limit for Lakers. Maybe say 2 Lakers and 2 Salmon/Rainbows, etc. many of the Lakes are really overun with Lakers and these eat allot of bait that could be for Salmon. I think the Lakers need allot less protection than the Salomn, they seem to be doing just fine.

But all in all, in reality I think allot of the Salmon as well as Lakers are put back anyhow.

John S.

In my previous post, I meant to say "2 Lakers and 2 Salmon and/or Rainbows (or other Trout species) total of 4 fish".

Bass have been catch and release for along time by the majority of Bass fisherman, maybe 100%. They seem to thrive very well still and without any outside help, but at the same time eat allot of bait too.

How much bait is there for "all" the game fish, this is why I think the Fish and Game concentrate so much effort on the Smelt..

What would the overall fishery be like if all fisherman kept 1 fish a day, I think better maybe, less overall fish, more bait, euqal bigger fish.

John S.

Catch & release most of the time. Use a rubber net or just shake the hook out of the salmon's mouth while still in water. Don't touch salmon because they are extremley delicate.

I wish I knew how to keep post in order, some of my post under this subject are was out of the order I sent them, hope people can sort it out OK ???

John S.

I'm no expext here and this is just my opinion form what I have obsevered. We have a had a camp on cow island since the early 60s. I think currently salmon and lake trout fishing are as good as they have ever been. In the early 70s we caught some bigger salmon but not a lot of them. My dad and I used troll off rattlesnake island in the summer with wire line dave davis spoons and f7 flatfish lures. a good moring or evening for us back that would be 2 to 4 fish sometimes five but we got a few salmon that were 6 to 7.5 pounds. Back that we used zebco delairs to wieght fish so they might have been a bit off but these were bigger salmon that what we call big now granted we had no and than very primitive fishlocators than too so it;s had to compare numbers today where a 10 plus fish day on 4 lines isn't that uncommon most days of the seasons. we also seem to catch more lake trout now while salmon fishing than we did back than where it seem we only cuahgt lakers if we were fishing for them (ae deep and slow) except for in the spring. We are alomost 100% catch and release unless a fish has been hooked to badly to put back or we occacionly keep one to eat. We use a rubber net and take great care in the way we release fish.

Bass on the other hand I think have suffer from fishing presure on winni but there are still alot of them and they are not hard to catch. I don't fish for them but I have noticed that the number of larger bass nesting in our cove in june is not like it was years ago, and I have seen the same fish caught 10 times over in the same afternoon by the parade of bass boats working the shore of the island. Not that there is anything wrong with that and they have the right to fish. but i wonder how that impacts there spawning and what there release mortality is. Maybe we are catching the same salmon 10 times over too? and I wonder what our mortality rate is when releasing Just my thoughts on the subject.

Glen

Glen:

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. They make a lot of sense to me. I guess given the rise in the number of people using the lake, where we are isn't all that bad. Actually, from the sounds of things, it seems fishing is pretty awesome. I guess you have to give credit to Fish and Game and maybe an assist to increased catch and release?

Just my 2 cents but if i remember a quote from John Viar, he said you should never "shake" the hook out of a Salmon that you plan on returning to the lake as it tends to injure them sometimes mortally, Take Care God Bless and Good Hunting LOL Dave From up North

I think the Lake is in a good place as far as the fishing goes. One more thing that I think has changed the lake alot over the years is all of the high inpact building construction on the shoreline especaily the islands. If we look at places like governers island the west shore of long island and other places where the natural shoreline has been replaced with lawns and other things. I think this greatly increases run off into the lake and has lowered water quaitly over the years and this I think has change the eco system and the fishing In anserw to your question I do think fish and game has done a very good job mantaining and managing the fishery in the lake. I'm sure Catch and relase goes along way to mantaining the fishing we enjoy I also
think that most of the salmon and bass fisherman on the lake are both very informed and ethical in the prusuit of their sport. I know that the menbers if this board are and thats goes an long why to protectecting what we are enjoy. Also if you need any advice on setting up your boat for next year post post your questions here You will find a lot helpful advice for guys who realy know what they are talking about when if comes to fishing for salmon and trout on
winnipesaukee

Glen

Glen