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Re: You want to read this one!!!!

fishlessman
almost think i would rather see a salmon sticker on the boat, every boat thats on a salmon lake. i dont want to be checking out whos fishing on my boat to see who has a salmon stamp.


I hear ya, good idea, but that would not produce the extra revenue. Maybe it could be mandatory that it be displayed on your person, hat, etc. In Mass we had to have our license visable, not sure if it's still mandated ????

Guides are supposed to ask to see clients license, but I doubt many ask ??? I fished with my niece's boy friend once, he's hunted deer for 25 years in NH. I found out at the end of the day he had no fishing license, only a hunting license. I never took him out again, fishes all the time in NH too..

Some Sportsman.

Big John

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

Must be one of them pigeon men from the elks only a guess, but there quite the bunch!!!

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We have a hard time trying to put more than 5 poles out on the turd no matter how many are on board...but if that goes through I can see not buying a N.H. fishing licence and playing in vermont,n.y. and in the salt more.I am only able to fish one day out of the week so I would have to alter my fishing for my enjoyment.I think they would be better served with applying a salmon stamp or somthing down yhat line,instead of pointing the finger at everyone except themselfs.polebreaker

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I know I don't agree with it, I would be willing to pay maybe 10$ extra for a stamp, if indeed the money was going to be earmarked for helping with the salmon fishery on winni. Not sticking up for people who guide on winni (as I'm not the only one that knows more then one guide) but Could they even remotely still earn a liveable wage if the entire boat was limited to only two rods? I also think they need to police and take a better count of just how many salmon are injured and die during Ice fishing? I feel if you take a salmon out of the hole and into the cold winter air, you might as well say that fish is Dead? Just my .02 but I know I would spend even more time in maine then I already do if this were to happen. Take Care God Bless LOL Dave

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Ditto on that polebreaker, my feeling exactly.

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How about if Fish and Game improves the salmon fishin in the surrounding lakes so everyone will not fish Winni. Personally I only venture from Winni a few times a year to target Salmon. Once you get skunked a few times in another lake you say thats enough, this sucks and back to Winni. Improve the fishin everywhere else.

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I'd be for it & also barbless.

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2 Rods is not very many how about 4 rods per boat? That seems a bit more reasonable.

Do my otter boats count as separate boats????

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I think it's a terrible idea!! It certainly won't help the economy of the area. I'm sure anyone in the tackle business would agree. I would be all for barbless hooks on Winni. I thought the stocking programs were to attract people to our waters to enjoy the sport. (and also spend $$$$$ to help our states economy.)

My 2 cents,
Salty

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it's not how many line's we use. all we want to see is 5 or 6 lbs very time we go out.we need to keep the fish we catch. if it 15 16 17 or 18. we are not helping by throwing this size fish back.we need to keep one fish over 18.as sportmen we need to help in any way we can. I think money is some of prodlem. pay as you go is not working out. you need a new way to support fish & game.
(charter boat)
4 lines per boat.and keep what they get. that big one will come and that's fishing jim

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would rather see one rod per person and no taking turns on fish per rod, never understood how or why they let that happen, i can understand why with a hired guide but others are doing it on their own boat. now if they want to see less damge restrict some of the tackle, like streamer flies only, and only rubber nets allowed

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Who is proposing 2 lines per boat (ie. F&G ?) ? Is this official and may become law ?
Something needs to be done this year.

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I believe that there is no logic what so ever to lines per boat. If deemed neccesary, it should be lines per (licensed) angler. The more people you have per boat, there will be less traffic and ecological damage. Barbless hooks make complete sense to lessen hook wounding.
MHO
Richard

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

I believe there could be improvement to the salmon fishing.But I think two lines per boat is a little overboard.I thought the problem was the salmon in winni. Had very few eggs.So the had to get eggs from salmon in squam. Which to me would be better because they are a better strain. I don" see there being a problem. Unless they couldn"t get any eggs for stocking. Just my two cents.And I like the point of keeping more salmon.I think this would make for some bigger salmon.

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I am assuming this is across the board with 2 lines per boat; or just trolling? In my honest opinion this will improve the salmon fishing. The facts on hook wounded fishes stunted growth is staggering. By the way, I drilled a hole 20 feet off the alton launch today 4" of ice, but just north of pavillion is just skimmed over.

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

Cool Water
It has been brought to my attention that there is a new proposal to reduce the amount of fishing lines on Winnipesaukee, Squam and Sunapee to two lines per boat no matter how many licensed anglers on board. I Wanted to get everyone’s opinion of this new proposal. I for one agree with the idea that we need and should do something to improve the quality of our fisheries not sure if this is the answer and really wanted to know what everyone thought?

What I would really love to do is say to Fish and Game if money had nothing to do with anything, if you Fish and Game had an open check book what would you do to improve Winnipesauee’s Salmon fishery and outline your definition of improvement I.e. Quantity over quality or whatever there goals would be!

This is something we need to discuss because if you do not like the idea of only two lines per boat than your voice needs to be heard and like wise if you think this will solve the problem!!!

Travis Williams
Cool Water
Fishlakewinni.com


I wouldn’t put much stock into rumors unless they are coming directly from Fish and Game. No matter how you look at it, bottom line it’s a business and we are the share holders, so good business decisions will be made for the good of the Lakes region and Fish and Game itself.. and us, the share holders.

Last thing they want is decrease in license revenue (F & G’s lifeline) or hurt business and/or the economy in the Lakes region.

We had our chance to voice our opinions and ideas, we blew it, now the ball is in their court, where it should be, they know what has to be done better than we do.

I don’t think they will make any changes for Squam or Sunapee, hard enough to catch your limit as it is on those lakes (I know this better than most) If
anything they want to encourage more people to fish those lakes to relieve the Winni pressure. People hear about big fish in those lakes, try them, get
skunked and head right back to Winni. They are big for a reason, allot less fish put in and allot less pressure, allot less caught, things that you wont find at Winni.

Smelt forage counts for Winni were in record abundance in Winni this year, but yet no quality Salmon fishery ?? So there is plenty of food, they are basically healthy fish, must be hook wounding like they say.

If Hook Wounding is and has been the #1 culprit, I’m sure there are plenty of ways to reduce it, some are:

1)Less fishing pressure (many ways to accomplish this, none any us of would like)

2)Barbless Hooks, a great idea.

3)Shorter season, again not a popular idea.

4)Reduce stock rate, therefore reducing catch rate and eventually less pressure

5)Selective Harvesting, take the poor quality, hook wounded fish out and leave the cream, instead of the opposite.

6)Moratorium on Derbies for a year or two, certainly would be huge help

WE HAVE ALL MADE SUGGESTIONS (TOO LATE MAYBE) BUT I THINK THE BEST IDEAS ARE BARBLESS HOOKS AND SELECTIVE HARVESTING, THAT WOULD BE A GREAT START.

FINALLY TIME TO DROP THE BOMB:
“BOTH” DERBIES NEED A VERY HARD LOOK TOO, THEY MAY BE THE MAIN CULPRIT AND WHOLE PROBLEM AS IT IS, THINK ABOUT IT. NO DERBIES FOR 1 OR 2 YEARS MIGHT SOLVE THE WHOLE PROBLEM, LEAVE EVERYTHNG ELSE AS IS.

IS OUR EYESIGHT GOOD ENOUGH TO SEE THE FOREST THRU THE TREES.

Put one of those Derbies on Squam (or any other NH lake) and you would kill the lake in 1 or 2 days, what makes us think Winni can handle that pressure without any consequences, year after year, after year.

Maybe it's not too late to be heard, Fish and Game welcomes e mail, comments, etc. from the share holders.

I'm sending this to letter to them, you may all want to be heard.

Big John

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

"Here's a Penny for my thoughts" I'm not sure they are worth 2 cents. Very good ideas and input from all the above posts. As far as 2 lines period per boat, silly idea! If a pole limit is needed, then no more than 4 per boat is adequate. I think most people would agree that no matter how many guy/gals are on a boat 4 is about the limit anyway to have an enjoyable fishing experience. liscensed guide business should be exempt, this is their living. the derby's I feel do put a lot of strain on the fishery. Perhaps alternating derbies for a few years( spring derby on even years, winter derby on odd years) would immediatly reduce impact by 50 percent. this would be a better altenative than banning them all together. A salmon stamp, great idea, I wouldn't mind spending the extra 10.00 to fish lakes with salmon as long as it goes to helping the fishery. F@G would have to be very active in checking liscense's so the message gets out, you fish salmon waters, you need the stamp!! Barbless hooks, thats a simple no brainer. I too enjoy fishing all the NH waters, however I always find myself back at Winni, why, fishing is better. Perhaps F@G can better manage the other Salmon lakes, so people would be more dispersed and this lessens winni pressure. Again, I'm paying the penny for my thoughts, so i only owe $9.99 for my 2010 Salmon stamp.

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We seem to agree on allot of points to one degree or another and disagree on some others.

1) Line limits don’t seem favorable to the majority. Myself I'm against the line limit, allot of us have 4 (some 6) downriggers, expensive planer board setups, etc. allot of money spent to sit in the garage if line limits are imposed.

For the most part it's a head thing, you have 3 people on board "all that bought a license" (key point) you want to fish 6 lines. Sure 4 would catch the same amount of fish probably but if someone paid for a license, they should be entitled to their two lines and under the current rules, they are.

Guides should be in the same boat as the rest of us if a line limit is imposed, what’s good for the goose, etc. IF A LIMIT IS IMPOSED I THINK 6 LINES WOULD BE BETTER THAN 4, even guides could live with that. We seldom fish more than 4 lines on the Barge, probably more in the spring. If (and that’s a big if) it came to line limits, my vote would be for 6 lines, guide or not.

3) Salmon stamp seems to be a favorable idea to most, but to make it mandatory for all fisherman fishing a Salmon Lake any given day, I think is reaching and probably result in decrease in license sales.

Bass guys should not have to pay for our passion, like I said before, they don’t get a hell of a lot directly from their license dollar..but “we” on the other hand do.

A Stamp could help Fish and Game and our cause, as long as the extra revenue doesn’t go for searching some idiot that climbs a mountain in a snow storm.

4) Some type of Derby limits seem to be in favor and down deep I think most would agree it has to be the "mother load" of hook wounding incidents, both winter and spring. Last Spring I’d say 8 out of 10 Salmon caught on Winni on my boat were 12 to 13 inches. Interesting side note, on Squam we hardly ever catch a newly stocked Salmon, once in a while we might catch one or two in September, but we hear of it all the time on Winni, must be the huge number put in Winni compared to other lakes.

5) Barbless Hooks or pinched barbs, great idea, will help get them de-hooked allot quicker and back into the water and less hook damage, bettert chance for survival.

6) Rubber nets should be mandatory, the killer nets are hard on the fish.

7) Selective harvesting, take the less than 100% healthy fish or hook wounded fish out of the lake, less fish eating the smelt, bigger fish will be grown, that includes Lakers. Don’t like to eat fish, no matter, I never had a hard time giving a Salmon away, never. I do disagree with catch and release, it will come back and bite us for sure, if it hasn’t already. The whole key to the fishery is to take a few out each trip, we can’t leave every Salmon put in there to eventually die. I can't imagine how many Bass are in the Lake, nobdy takes a Bass anymore.

Salmon only thrive for 5 or 6 years max, they live hard and die young, over 5 or 6 years they are over the hill and useless other than to eat allot of Smelt. So take those trophies out, put em on the wall. Leave the nice plump 2, 3 and 4 year olds in the pond, they might be a wall hanger next year..

Maybe we should tackle one idea at a time as a thread topic, beat it to death and come up with a proposal we all somewhat agree to and propose it to Fish and Game.

This and all my post on the subject by me will be sent to Fish and Game.

Sorry for the long post, but this is something I could go on about all day long as I’m sure most of you could too..

Big John

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

Well written and covers my thoughts almost perfectly.polebreaker

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I agree with most of John’s thoughts but it won’t happen the derbies generate too much money as said in earlier posts for the local economy, other then bike week which is the biggie and the fish don’t suffer. I think maybe a rod limit per boat at prime fishing times ice out to June no exemptions and I also think they should give the Marine Patrol power to enforce fishing laws not that the real fisherman don’t obey them but the derbies pull in allot of partiers that buy the three day pass then you never see them again and good part of them keep what they catch no matter what. Maybe they should ban drifting life smelt and go to hardware only that will cut down on the number of fish landed. I like most of you could go on forever so to all of you Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

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My .02. not a stamp, a checkoff on the license. NH F&G was losing money on the state duck stamp and changed it to a check off

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Was it not too long ago NH had 2 fishing licenses,A cold water and warm water species licenses? Are we going to institute this again? We have a stamp already for the Atlantic Salmon in the rivers,don't we.Barbless hooks Are a great idea! Rubber nets,not so,because I don't net any of my fish I don't intend to eat.If the fish is lipped hooked it goes back,if not it goes home.Marine patrol doesn't need to be checking fishing licenses,and they don't need the budget they have,tranfer some to F&G.Live bait,how many of us started with live bait as a kid,how many of you have taken your grandkids fishing without live bait and kept them interested long enough to get a sunburn.We dont need more unenforceable laws or rules,we just need to use a little common sense. JUST MY 2cents

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If we could count on ALL I repeat ALL of ourselves to be good stewarts we would not have any laws or this conversation at all. The stamp for atlantic salmon proves we can grow fish to mature size for stocking and catching. Bass fishermen have dozens of lakes full of bass. Those filthy fish grow anywhere! and need no extra help to reproduce. A small fee to pitch lines on carefully protected and managed waters like Winni seems...... practicle! Guide services and derby's that produce revenue from the very salmon we are trying to grow pay an additional fee's.

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I DON'T BELIEVE THAT MONEY WAS LOST WITH THE STATE DUCK STAMP AS NOT ONLY DUCK HUNTERS BUT STAMP COLLECTORS(FROM ALL OVER) WERE BUYING THEM. THE CHECKOFF SYSTEM WAS AN INTERNAL F&G ISSUE TO ADDRESS BUDGET CONCERNS. CAN YOU SAY PENNY WISE POUND FOOLISH!!

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

some realy good ideas have been posted here,but it all starts with us each one of us need to police our own house(boat realy)and do what we can individually to protect what we already have and improve for the years to come.I'm not sure if this post is worth .02 or not but here it is anyhow Merry Christmas&Happy New year play it safe on the ice!!! BARRY

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

Forry asked me to post this for him

I said I wouldn't post and apologize for doing so, but this effects me as well and just wanted to give my opinion. NOT THAT ANY ONE CARES

In my opinion the Guides of new Hampshire should have their license fees increased, and should also be charged a fee per customer that is guided. this will not solve the problem but it will be a start. I say this not to hurt the guides but to bring them in line with the rest of the professionals of the state, as I will explain.
The electricians now pay $105 a year for their license and probably going up Plus they have to on top of that pay permit fees for every Customer/client that they do work for each time they do a different job for that customer as well. they same goes for the Plumber. I am not sure about the carpenters. these tradesmen are not even taking or hurting any resources either.

Think about it for a second the guides pay what? $59.50 for their license, they pay no permit fees per customer/client plus they are taking resources that the rest of us are paying for. At least when the Derbies are run the state mandates that the derby must put fish back into the ponds or lakes, why not the guides.

As far as Bass fisherman I disagree with john if the state is going to charge more for the salmon fisherman the Bass fisherman should not be exempt. the state is paying the game wardens to police them as well. and if you want to stop derbies then stop all bass tournaments as well. and if they are then the state should make them put salmon in the lakes

I think the state should have a slot limit, like they did with the lake trout on Newfound.

the barb less hook requirement might help

The single hook lure might help.

The single hook fly (no tandems) might help.

All the barb less hook, single hook lure, single hook flies may all help the fish but would probably bankrupt the businesses though.

I think the two rod limit is fine

I am an ice fisherman as well and think that it is selfish of the people that don't to suggest that the state prohibit anglers to fish in the lakes that have salmon thinking that this will help the problem. sure there are a few bad apples that will catch salmon through the ice, but I don't believe stopping the angler from fishing these lakes will help. think about how much money that ice fishing derby (which is based on the largest salmon lake in the state not to forget what is probably the most fished as well during that derby) makes for the business owners and the state. the spring derby I don't believe even comes close to bringing in that kind of money.

Maybe the State should not have a catch and release law BUT if you want to take fish home charge a few for the fish no matter what the species. They already have catch and release for some species, if the state needs dollars then why not make the ones who want to take the fish home pay to replace them?

The bottom line fishing just a sport. we all want to catch fish this is true, but do we all have to catch the monsters? Sure it would be nice to catch big fish.
But I think we all have to police our selves and stop complaining. I get a kick out of most of you guys, the rod pops off and your reeling the fish in and say
"Oh man this is a good one" you fight the fish for about five minutes happy as a clam then when you find out it is either a lake trout, bass, white perch, or even a pickerel all of a sudden it is junk. what happened did all the fun just disappear because it was not the almighty salmon? come on guys. I think we all have to appreciate the fishery we have.

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

I know I'm in the minority but I absolutely agree there should be a pole limit per boat. I like 4 rods per boat. 2 is not enough but with 4, you can cover plenty of water and depths. More than that and it looks like a drag net behind some boats! If you have alot of expensive stuff, you're just gonna have to pick and choose which gear you're gonna use that day cause running 4 downriggers and 4 off the planers and lead cores is in my opinion leading to a ton of hookwounded fish.

Matt

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

Plenty of ideas on this thread.
Seems like the problem is:

1)Reared Salmon are too small.

Fish and Game would need more money to solve this problem. More hatchery space would be needed, and in general all costs go up. One solution would be stamp or fee.

2)Hook wounded fish are too numerous.

To reduce this we have to take home the damaged ones and quit fishing at a resonable number of fish are boated. Salmon just arent conducive to catch and release several times. All of us have experienced catching a salmon that was previously hood damaged. We need to take those fish home.

3)Too much pressure on the resource.

If we don't want to have the State mandate a reduction in lines or other restriction we had better do it ourselves.

Hope all are well.

Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Regards,

Roger-

PS...nice to see Forry sneak one in before the years end. One and Done...good job.

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

these are just my thought's
i dont know how many fishing licences are sold in n.h. every year. but i agree with john.although i dont think it called for?if there where to be an added charge.be it a extra tag/stamp.where will the money go.of all things we should have learned from is
throwing money at the problem doesnt always work???(ie)AIG/BANKS.we all pay a decent amount of money for our licences.where will all this extra revenue go.who knows how long f&g will be in control of the annual budget.with the changes being purposed(ie)who will control fish&game?
as for the amount of poles we can fish i dont agree with any change.i have never noticed a differene in the amount of fish i can catch in a day.be it 2 or 6 lines.i have talked to many guys on the pond who were fishing six lines.and my self two lines.and i had caught more fish.as for the guides.i think they should have to pay more.they make there living off of these lakes and its in there best interest to keep the fishing at its best.and ours too.i agree with barbles kooks and single hooks.talking with big john on the barge this year we discussed this topic and i agree with big john.barbles &single hooks will help..but one thing i see alot is people fighting these fish like there bass or tuna.the more you pump the rod the worse the wound? as for nets i agree rubber all the way.this lake has been fished along time. have they had these same issues in the last 30 years.and if so how did they remidy the problems back then.i also agree they need to stock bigger yearlings.they have a better survival rate.
these are just my thoughts. merry x-mas to all and to all a good nite?? joe s..

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If there are four licensed fisherman. Either fishing on land or in a boat. Each one should be able too use. One fishing pole apiece. That what they bought a fishing license for. And hook wounded salmon. I do not see this as a problem. Of all the thousand of salmon in winni. I think it would a very small percentage of salmon in winni. We caught very few salmon that were not in decent shape last year.Then compair this figure to bass. Which is a lot tuffer fish. And get caught about the same amount of time. If not more. We we were happy with all the salmon we caught hook wounded or not.Again my 2 cents.

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Not trying to stir the pot or anything, but how does anyone know exactly what the guides are paying? Are you taking into consideration,(insurances to cover guests on their boats? (last I knew this was/is pretty expensive) they supply all the poles/bait/lures/fuel/life preservers/coolers/filleting cleaning of fish for the boat etc... etc... etc...) I don't think its fair that they should have to pay even more, and if you look at what over 1/2 the guides I know charge, and take into consideration a bunch of factors, they are not getting rich over the deal thats for sure. I do agree with stocking a little larger fish, but (correct me if I'm wrong) didn't somebody bring up barbless hooks at the spring gathering to John Viar a couple years ago, and wasn't it stated that barbless hooks can actually cause more damage to younger salmon then hooks with barbs? Something about tearing out easier? If handled correctly and properly, there shouldn't be any hook wounds, its the guys that just leave them in the water, take a pair of pliers and jerk the fish off of the hook that causes alot of the damage. Don't think hook wounding is an issue????????? Have you been to one of the spring gatherings and seen the hook wounding data that has been provided by Fish and Game? Winni is always top of that list and by quite the margin over the past two years as well compared to some of the other lakes. Just my .02 but I do know if we want anything changed, we as sportsman/women do need to stand as one and let our voices be heard, or else it will just be decided by some meathead behind a desk who doesn't even partake in our sport we love so dearly. 2 line limit? I'm against it and know I would probably only visit winni once or twice a year, if this was imposed.And not to P_SS of Forry, but think of how many people are on winni during the winter derby, from what I hear thousands, lets just say that out of all these people each person accidently catches a salmon and over half pull it out of the hole, how many DEAD Salmon does that add up to once they realize it is indeed a Salmon? just something to think of Take Care God Bless LOL Dave

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Just by chance, in case some people read Cool Waters first message and only saw it was Winni about the two lines, Take a closer look, it also mentions Squam and Sunapee. Just thought I'd point that out as most people are talking about Winni. Take Care God Bless LOL Dave

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

LOL Dave
Just by chance, in case some people read Cool Waters first message and only saw it was Winni about the two lines, Take a closer look, it also mentions Squam and Sunapee. Just thought I'd point that out as most people are talking about Winni. Take Care God Bless LOL Dave


Dave, until a name or group is attached to what Trav says, it's still only a rumor. Why Sunapee and Squam are mentioned in the same breath or context as Winni I don't know, neither have as high a hook wound rate because it's **** hard to catch allot of Salmon on those lakes and allot less pressure, why make it harder. Fish and Games wish is that more folks fished those other lakes to take some pressure from Winni. lastthing they want is to discourage folks from fishing other lakes..

One idea not mentioned is to "do nothing", that is a sure way to fix it but it would take a long time. If left as is, Winni will get so bad, nobody will want to fish it anymore and likewise "no pressure" problem, solved without any changes at all, simple.

But is that what we all want ??????

I still feel the Derbies are the main culprit, maybe some changes can be made without stopping them. Why do you think there will never be any more Derbies added ???

Big John

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All I can say is that if this were to happen, two lines per boat, F&G is gonna lose alot of money in my opinion. It would be useless to go to winni/squam or sunapee 3 of us comfortably on "The Tubb" to only be allowed to put 2 lines in the water. If that were to be the case, we more then likely wouldn't even do the spring derby, and with just our crew (cabin rental, local tackle shops, restaurants, gas, food, etc...) that would be a loss of minimum almost 800-1000 dollars, multiply that times XXXX and thats a big chunk of change that wont go into the local economy. I agree something needs to change, but I think we need to really listen to the biologists that have all the numbers and see exactly what they recommend, Would this 2 line max be for a couple 2-3 years or for good? Not sure how this is gonna pan out, but if it comes to fruitation, guess I'll be in Maine more then I am now LOL Take Care God Bless LOL Dave

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

LOL Dave
All I can say is that if this were to happen, two lines per boat, F&G is gonna lose alot of money in my opinion. It would be useless to go to winni/squam or sunapee 3 of us comfortably on "The Tubb" to only be allowed to put 2 lines in the water. If that were to be the case, we more then likely wouldn't even do the spring derby, and with just our crew (cabin rental, local tackle shops, restaurants, gas, food, etc...) that would be a loss of minimum almost 800-1000 dollars, multiply that times XXXX and thats a big chunk of change that wont go into the local economy. I agree something needs to change, but I think we need to really listen to the biologists that have all the numbers and see exactly what they recommend, Would this 2 line max be for a couple 2-3 years or for good? Not sure how this is gonna pan out, but if it comes to fruitation, guess I'll be in Maine more then I am now LOL Take Care God Bless LOL Dave



I doubt you will see much change in the Derbies (a 900 pound political Gorilla nobody wants to wrestle with) but some change is needed.

I'm pretty sure some other changes are coming, but maybe for Winni only.

What they would like is to have people fish some of the other lakes more and take some pressure off Winni, this is not a rumor. Many times I have talked with Fish and Game and they said the fishing pressure has to be spread out more to the other Salmon Lakes, but how ???

Of course this would be the worse year to try the above as Winnisquam, Sunapee, Newfound and Squam are all practicaly dry as far as Salmon go. The small stocking size 2 years in a row is showing up in the nets now, virtualy no 2 year olds (two in fact, which equalled 2% of the net pull)at Squam. Other lakes the same or similar results, F and G say 40% to 60% of the netting normaly are be 2 year olds.

Most of the other lakes have their own negatives, boat launch and parking at Sunapee, Squam has limited deep basins can't handle allot of boat traffic, Winnisquam has no Smelt and very few Salmon of any age. I've never caught a Salmon at Newfound, but only fished it a few times, guess it's a Laker and Bow lake primarily and for sure now?

So in my un-educated opinion, some changes are needed everywhere but Winni (at a minmum) the mother lake, should be the start..

Big John

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

The common thread I read in the above posts is that all the folks on this board have a lot of great ideas and are already doing their best to be good stewards of our resource.
I think for all the reasons mentioned about two lines, that is not a good idea. As well as restricting to four lines would not have the impact that is desired as most any of you fishing folks fishing four lines can catch quite a few fish.
I agree with Mr. Sampson that "changes" in the derbies would have the biggest impact.
The Sping Derby is for Salmon only. We have a ton of Lake trout in our lake.....Why not target them for a period of time and leave the salmon alone. As stated in previous post, during this derby you get alot of folks that do not normally fish, I am sure they are not as "informed" on releasing techniques, rubber nets and etc. How many thousand salmon do you think are caught during this event? If there are 2500 folks fishing and the average is two fish per person, how may hook wounded fish are put back in the lake on those three days.
The Ice Derby changed to targeting tagged rainbows several years ago. When I first fished this derby this was not the case and the desired fish was Lake trout.When they targeted rainbows I know that is when if I target rainbows I catch salmon as well. The rest of the year when I chase white perch..I rarely hook a salmon. In other words come up with a diiferent fish for the prizes. Maybe a combo of fish to keep lines deeper.
In line with some other thoughts as well, instead of a Salmon Stamp , have a Winni Stamp. Maybe that would put more pressure on the other lakes and be viewed as more fair to folks that primarily fish the other salmon lakes.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to all.

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

Hook wounding is 25 % - 33 % on Winni,Squam,Sunapee, NewFound and other salmon lakes. It's a huge problem.

I would be open to :

1. 1 rod per licensed fisherman

2. barbless hooks & maybe single also

3. rubber nets a must.

4. about a $10 dollar increase in fishing licenses or salmon stamp requirement. All $$$ goes to F&G.

5. not sure how to handle the derbies, i don't fish them.

6. a meeting with F&G biologists this winter for discussion ??

regards
Jim Hennessy

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

Hi,
Let me start of by saying that I love to fish for salmon but I take exception when there are people who feel that salmon are the be all and end all. There are other gamefish out there and, in my opinion, they are severely neglected in this state. What F&G should really be taking a look at is spending more of there money on fish that can actually reproduce once they're stocked. Maybe all the money they throw away by stocking 8-10" trout in streams that are nearly dried up by July, needs to be reexamined. Is this not an incredible waste of money? Could the money wasted here be used towards improving the salmon fishery? Perhaps there are other species that could be stocked in the trout/salmon lakes(or at least some of them)that would fare better. Maybe Browns, Waleyes, Pike, Musky? I know this statement will be lambasted here, but is it worth looking into. I know they say the smelt population is great in Winni, but maybe a bait source such as alewife would be better for the fishery? I'm not an expert and I don't know the answers to these questions, but I feel they deserved to be asked. Go to the Finger Lakes in NY and the primary forage is alewife. These lakes grow much larger fish than we have here in NH;it's not even close. Both coldwater(trout/salmon) and warmwater(walleye,pike, bass)fish coexist, grow and thrive here. Why is this so? Could our F&G department learn something from NY F&G? Shouldn't they at least look into it? All I know is that 5-6 years ago you could head to Winni and have a good shot at a 4lb salmon. Those days are now few and far between. When I troll I'm specifically looking for larger fish, and not numbers. I would much rather catch a trout/salmon over 5 lbs., then 20 in a day under 2 lbs. If I want numbers, then I can bass fish. I started of as a "bass man", graduated to trolling, and now I'm somewhere in between. We need to keep an open mind that there are other fish species which could fare better in our larger lakes. The Atlantic Salmon on the Great Lakes is almost an afterthought. I asked numerous charter captains why this is so and all said the same thing; they're not nearly as hardy as other gamefish and just don't cut it. In other words, it's not cost efficient to stock them as much as other species. Maybe with all the pressure that salmon currently experience, they're just not ever going to return to the "glory days". I think all of your opinions are valued and deserve to be heard. I know this post may not be the most popular on this site, but one that should be included in the discussion, nonetheless. Take care and happy holidays to all!

Chris

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

Wow, look at all the posts. I read thru many but not all. I only have a few comments that may not be worth 2 cents. I think most of us have had days where two rods are hard to keep in the water because the fishing was so good. Other days you can put out everything possible and not produce much fish. I would not like to see a two rod limit but if its in the best interest of the lake why not? One of MY beliefs for the downturn of Winni Salmon is the Ice fishing for Rainbows. Hey I ice fish for them too, but run into the occational Salmon. With the winter derby and the length of the last several years ice fishing seasons (global warming ya right), it's no wonder we have had a major impact on the Salmon. I do think that including the rainbows to the Salmon season regulations (no rainbows thru the ice) ON WINNI would help the Salmon population to recover quicker. Putting tags on the Lake trout for the winter derby is no big deal. This would also help control the Lake trout population before it gets out of hand. Roland and Lena

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

I have read over all of the posts. I agree that it is important that at least we are talking about solutions and all giving our opinions and maybe, just maybe one or a a combination of a few opinions will greatly impact the fishery.

With that said, I agree with alot of what I have read and disagree with a few things.

First, a limit of 6 rods per boat, in my opinion, is really no limit at all. I really think that if you looked at all of the fishing boats on a lake you would find a very small percentage fishing more than 6 lines. I have a larger than average size boat and 5 lines is as many as I can run with out tangles(I dont stack the lines on the riggers). So in my opinion a 6 rod limit would have a VERY small, if any, impact on the fishery.

Second, I know this won't be popular with some people but I don't think we should change the rules or cater to the guides. Yes, they are trying to make a living but they chose to make a living guiding sportsmen and must take the bad with the good. In my opinion they have a HUGE impact on the fishery. If the solution is a 1 pole per license or 4 poles per boat limit that is what it is for every boat, not just the private sportsmen. One of the above posts above talks about limiting out too quick. Compare that to the out of state moose hunter who spends $2500 to hire a moose guide and kills his moose 10 minutes into opening day. Is there a difference? I personally think not. That moose hunter moves on to bird hunting, rabbit hunting or fishing. Could salmon guides do the same and move on and target another species such as bass?

In closing, I like the barbless hook idea as well as the stamp, sticker or whatever will work to provide revenue to F and G if in fact increased revenue will help.

You all have asked for opinions, this is mine. Lets keep this debate going, it is in all of our best interest.

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

I really like Woodnwaters idea, about changing the targeted species during the winter derby from rainbows to lakers, Then not only would we have decent size salmon to catch, we would also have good sized rainbows as well, not sure about anyone else, but some of the rainbows I've caught on winni (the bigger ones) fight just as well as the salmon. Take Care God Bless LOL Dave

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

"whatever will work to provide revenue to F and G if in fact increased revenue will help."

thats a really important aspect, looking at some of the new game warden boats over in maine this year you just have to shake your head.

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

Wow...what a great response on this thread. So much that I couldn't absorb and respond to all the great feed back but there are a few that I have opinions on:
1.) Why not also charge bass fishermen? Simple...In NH, salmon is a managed fishery. That is a lot of resources spent on breeding and releasing and constant studies. Bass is entirely unmanaged...why should bass fisherman foot the bill for managing salmonid fisheries more so than they already do with their fishing licenses? I fish both species so this is just my observation...
2.) Rather than eliminating the Spring Derby, how about shortening it to one or two days and swapping prizes so the big prizes go lakers and the laker prizes go to salmon. Include with that a higher minimum length for weigh in to be 23 or 24 inches.
3.) 4 lines per boat is not a bad number...it's all I like to put out but only effects those will really nice boats spreading on planerboards with huge spreads. While it would limit SOME of the harvest and level the playing field for the derby, it would cripple the guides and thus seem to unfairly target a very small portion of fishermen.

Barbless hooks, rubber nets, 4 line limit, slot limits, changing derby length and prizes could all effect the fishery BUT everything I have read is that the fishery health is a direct mirror of the health of the smelt population. I think it just might be that any legislation should target this species NOT salmon.

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

MikeF-NH
Wow...what a great response on this thread. So much that I couldn't absorb and respond to all the great feed back but there are a few that I have opinions on:
1.) Why not also charge bass fishermen? Simple...In NH, salmon is a managed fishery. That is a lot of resources spent on breeding and releasing and constant studies. Bass is entirely unmanaged...why should bass fisherman foot the bill for managing salmonid fisheries more so than they already do with their fishing licenses? I fish both species so this is just my observation...
2.) Rather than eliminating the Spring Derby, how about shortening it to one or two days and swapping prizes so the big prizes go lakers and the laker prizes go to salmon. Include with that a higher minimum length for weigh in to be 23 or 24 inches.
3.) 4 lines per boat is not a bad number...it's all I like to put out but only effects those will really nice boats spreading on planerboards with huge spreads. While it would limit SOME of the harvest and level the playing field for the derby, it would cripple the guides and thus seem to unfairly target a very small portion of fishermen.

Barbless hooks, rubber nets, 4 line limit, slot limits, changing derby length and prizes could all effect the fishery BUT everything I have read is that the fishery health is a direct mirror of the health of the smelt population. I think it just might be that any legislation should target this species NOT salmon.


The Smelt count was excellent on all the Lakes this summer except Winnisquam, Winni was much better than expected, best in years.. Hook wounding is the problem, fish are being hooked again and again. Salmon are not that hardy compared to Bsss and most other fish, when they get hook wounded it knocks the hell out of them and takes allot to recover, weakens them and stunts growth, etc. Just clipping the fins at the hatchery takes weeks to recover from. For a super fighting fish, they are very fragile.

I agree 100% on Bass fisherman being exempt from ant Salmon fee.

Big John

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

BLA BLA .................
Cause , effect then resolution. Don't make the job easy, make them step up !! The rules are in place don't let them (F&G and the softies) take away.... step up ! We need back bone......Put in kick ass fish to catch and charge me plenty for it !! If they take away you never ever get it back !! The salmon population is......... up to the license seller..... Yup I try to be the games men but bottom line its buisness. If you sell more fish than you make..! you make more !!! BE REALISTIC this is nothing more than put and take fishing.... has been since the 60's... get the program. I have been to Quebec, Newbrunswick and NY in the heart of salomon fishing..... BOTTOM LINE.... if they don't put them(and make sure they get big enough ) you don't catch them. Merry New year !! Any thing your kidding your self.

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

Just in case I studdered... I'm Tired of the bleeding heart hook wounding saga 2009. I want to run 6 to ten rods with trebble hooks BARBED and catch all that will bite. I bring extra kids just to have the rods in the water. I have dragged for hours and stuck nothing for as many hours as I have had success. BULL Ticky !!! get the fishery up to the preasure..... don't try to bring the preasure to the fishery and then sell me a license. Just like hunting, I did not buy and carry a 30/06 to catch and release the deer.

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

I didn't know they sold barbless 30.06 deer rounds(lol)merry christmas.polebreaker

Re: You want to read this one!!!!

I agree 1 million percent with fishn24/7. Aren't fish stocked in waters to get hooked? F&G needs to do a better job stocking and stop wasting the majority of our money stocking trout in streams and ponds that after June can't sustain these fish. If they're worried about money, then what I mentioned above could definitely bring in tons of money, all without a license increase. While I'm on this topic, they should take some of this wasted money and start stocking warmwater fish that could actually reproduce and grow to large sizes in our waters. Pike, Musky, and Walleye come to mind. Don't just put them in one lake and hope they take after they've been hammered by the fishermen. This gives them no chance at taking and gives F&G an excuse that they tried and were not successful. F&G is totally missing the boat on this one. What they don't do for the warmwater fishery in this state is neglectful and very close minded. Their philosophy seems to be stock fish that don't have a chance to grow large and reproduce in our NH waters vs. fully committing to one's that could. I'm very confused by this; this makes no sense!!!! We can have it both ways, they just need to spend their money more wisely. I'd pay $200 for a license if we had a fishery that was well diversified and not so one sided, the Finger Lakes keep popping into my mind of what I envision we could have in this state. The whole thing makes me sick just thinking about what could be. One last point, why not make Winni a trophy brown trout lake? With all the bait and crayfish in the lake, I think they would stand the best chance of reaching trophy sizes (over 7 lbs). They're also a lot harder to catch and more hardy. Would this ever be considered? I already know the answer. The young browns look too much like salmon to clueless people who might then keep them while ice fishing.(I've been told this by F&G directly). What would you rather catch 2 lb salmon or 6-8 lb browns? I know my preference. Does anybody else out there agree or am I a wacko in the way I think? I'm not saying terminate the salmon fishery, but to not have one of our larger lakes dedicated to a trophy brown fishery is a downright shame. Sorry to rant and rave but every time I come back from NY I find myself green with envy. I hope you and yours have a wonderful holiday and new year!

Chris

Merry Christmas to all

Not sure If I posted this or parts of it before senior moment.

The small Salmon that we all complaning about which are part of the problem should be thing of the past.

As most of you know Salmon are stocked by the pound, ideal is 8 or 9 to a pound, the past two years they have been more like 20+ to a pound, bite size.

The problem had something to do with water temperture at the hatchery. The Salmon grow better with slightly warmer water, however some state agency had a problem with water temperature at the hatchery discharge being too warm. Not sure which agency it is, but they are in the same building as Fish and Game I'm told. At any rate F and G found a way to have the water temperature more ideal for raising Salmon and have it at the proper discharge temp. I think they are using a pool or pools furthest away from the discharge.

So we should ave more normal stock size this year and future years if all goes well.

Actualy I have asked the question to F & G before why they don't raise the Salmon bigger before stocking, they said that it is cost prohibitive and that the Salmon actualy do better in the lakes eating a more natural protien and grow faster than they would at the hatchery.

The reason I seem to be more informed than some of you is I e mail Fish and Game on a regular basis and "ASK QUESTIONS". Everything they do is a matter public record and they welcome and will answer any questions any of you have.

Lots of good ideas in this thread, F and G are reading them and I'm sure a few changes are being planned, what exactly is anyones guess.

The open meetings are only held every odd year,. so if we don't like what we have this coming year and next, go to the next meeting in 2011 and be heard.

Maybe they will have a special open meeting to address this problem now that we showed most of us do care.

Big John

Re: Merry Christmas to all

John I believe they may be getting colder water now because I thought they were suppose to extend the intake pipe out deeper into Merrymeeting Lake.
Cal

Re: Merry Christmas to all

White Cap
John I believe they may be getting colder water now because I thought they were suppose to extend the intake pipe out deeper into Merrymeeting Lake.
Cal


Well, that's not good news, warmer water is the key as I'm told ?

Big John

Re: Merry Christmas to all

Season's Greetings Big John.

I am going to buy myself a Xmas gift soon, another Big Jon rigger with auto-stop feature.

F & G in N.H. is very professional and email/call me back.. I like you ask alot of questions...