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Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

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Union Leader

Fall Netting Results

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Gus
AVATAR

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

Couldn't say we didn't see this happening. Its a sad day for the lakes region and will be a huge loss of income. The increase of pressure and number of fish caught per day per boat has been way too high for way too long and we know it. The increase in the percentage of hook wounded salmon at Squam and Sunapee is an alarming number. We who take advantage of the resource had better take care of it and change our ways asap or the future of the sport that we love will change for our children.

I congratulate those who run the derby and our biologists on making very this difficult decision. I hope this is the start of a longterm plan for the salmon fisheries.

Roger-

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

Thanks for posting the link Gus. The netting results are a real eye opener for those in doubt there is a problem.

Can't say we didn't see some huge changes one way or another coming. I'm sure stock rates are being looked at hard as well. I hope they stop it there and evaluate the results after a year or two before additional alterantives are introduced..

The Derby on hold will also allow them to put the Salmon in allot earlier too, like they do in the other Lakes, instead of waiting til after the Derby.

A huge unselfish decision that will no doubt hurt the area busineses and perhaps license sales, but hopefully will turn things around.

Big John

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

I do know it was a difficult decision, and that it will hurt the local economy (restaurants, cottages, house/cottage/motel/hotel rentals, bait shops, etc... etc...) and I also know it takes away the one 4 day weekend vacation that I ultimately looked very foward to every year especially since my Dad started coming with us this year Ughhhhhhhh I hope it helps and that people start paying closer attention when releasing the undersized Salmon they catch. Well looks Like I'll finally be able to take that week long trip I've always wanted to take to the far Northern reaches of Maine. One way or another I will get on a lake somewhere for a week, (I mean god I gotta get away from the wife and kid for at least one week LMAO) Take Care God Bless LOL Dave who's Sad the derby is cancelled, but feeling better if it will help out the fishery.

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

Rumor has it fishing off a pontoon boat is being looked at also especially on Big Squam causes allot of hook wounding LOL

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

Lineman
Rumor has it fishing off a pontoon boat is being looked at also especially on Big Squam causes allot of hook wounding LOL


Ouch

Big John

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

The Winni Derby website has been updated with specific comments from the Director about why it was cancelled.

Personally, I think it's like throwing a pebble in the ocean. If the derby kills 225 fish per year according to records...how many are kept but charter captains clientel? (Sorry charter captains...I love you guys and support you but are you too good?)....not to mention other rec anglers who keep their 2 fish per day limit. My guess would be those numbers are in the thousands. Why not change the fishery to "catch and release ONLY" for a few years for greater effect?

Also, why cancel the entire derby? Why not change the format to "lake trout only" so the local merchants don't take the huge hit? OR increase the minimum weigh in size to 24"? Wouldn't that address the main reason for cancelling the derby?

It just seems that the effects of the Derby on the fishery are infantismal compared to other factors.

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

Am I wrong in assuming that twice as many salmon suffer FATAL wounds during the rotary derby than the spring derby?

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

How would you know the answer to that question?
Cal

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

Just an assumption. Atmospheric conditions, eyes freezing over, flopping on the ice (internal injuries; like I said before most out of town rookies here for the rotary derby cannot identify fish properly and pull anything and everything hooked onto the ice), swallowing the hook rather than lip hooked like most trolled salmon. Also, when cut off properly and legally in the auger hole the hooked bait is almost always jammed halfway down the salmons throat with the hook holding it there. not good. Also, just the amount of preferred salmon forage fished just under the ice for rainbows. On Winni; when you fish just under the ice in water deeper than 5 feet for rainbows do you catch more rainbows or salmon?

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

I know what I am about to write will not be popular but I've seen several references to it so I must write it.

Several postings on this and other sites suggest that limiting # of lines in the water will not have any effect. I strongly disagree. Do you think that guys that post 40 fish days with 6-8 lines out will have those days with 2? Absolutely NOT! With 2 lines, most would be like to post double digits.

That's 30 less fish PER DAY per boat with a spread that strains water the size of a football field ALL YEAR LONG. That's 30 less hook wounded or fatally wounded fish per boat described above. With probably 10 of these boats operating on the lake each weekend day, that's 4-500 less fish per weekend being hooked. Compare that to the one weekend that 225 fish are killed in the derby to gain perspective.

Do I only want 2 lines in the water? No...what fun is that but perhaps a compromise to say 4 lines could be considered. Sportsman need to do this compromises on several fronts in order to get balance between what is best for the fishery and what is best for the fishermen. Barbless hooks, rubber nets, catch and release...these are all compromises...why not take a few of your lines out of the water? Cancelling the derby is not a compromise, changing how the derby is run would be a compromise. I am all for making it a laker/rainbow derby, shortening the hours from 10AM-3PM, eliminating Sunday, increasing minimum salmon lengths...these are all compromises that I wonder if they were considered.

Again, I don't want this to seem like I'm attacking any group or individual but we need honest perspective here...right?

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

Why not ban the use of life bait like Maine did that would cut down on the numbers especially at ice-out when there is allot of bait drifting going on.

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

"ban the use of live bait"
Here we go again, making a style of hook & line fishing illegal...I enjoy drifting smelt and will testify that the hooks wounds are not worse than using lures or when the salmon swallows a fly... bull feathers you say... well we use small live bait hooks and if the fish has swallowed the bait and we want to release the fish we can simply cut the line... after all you are not going to cut the line and leave a fly or lure in the fishes mouth

Bottom line is we have gooten to efficient at catching salmon and I support a (4) line / boat limit whether we're guiding or not

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

Great post Mike! I totally agree! There should be no more than 4 lines in the water per boat. Cut down on the lines in the water, numbers will decrease. Rubber nets should be mandatory too.

Matt

This might P.O. a Few people But??????????

Even though I too am upset about them cancelling the spring derby (which I love) and I understand the quality of the salmon has suffered (size, hook woundings etc...) over the past 3-4 years. Why is it that the winter derby is still being allowed to continue? I hate to say it (but I'm gonna) I do love hard water fishing, even though I may not do it as much as I would like, but even though I've never been to the winter derby, I hear there are alot more people there then the spring derby, WHY then is this derby also not cancelled??????????? No matter what anyone says (yeah I can just imagine the responses over this one) you can not honestly tell me that some (probably quite a few) of these fishermen/women who come up to be with their buddies eating/drinking/partying and fishing don't also catch a bunch of salmon while targeting rainbows? and improperly and illegally take a salmon out of the hole to photograph etc... and more then likely in some instances fry it up inside a bobhouse to eat? I personally feel that if I should have to suffer by not being able to fish in a Derby that I truly enjoy with good friends and family that I wait all year for and look forward too, then the hardwater guys should also lose this oppourtunity. Just my .02 Don't mean to P.O. anyone but I just don't think its fair to "All Fishermen/Women" Take Care God Bless LOL Dave

Re: This might P.O. a Few people But??????????

LOL Dave
Even though I too am upset about them cancelling the spring derby (which I love) and I understand the quality of the salmon has suffered (size, hook woundings etc...) over the past 3-4 years. Why is it that the winter derby is still being allowed to continue? I hate to say it (but I'm gonna) I do love hard water fishing, even though I may not do it as much as I would like, but even though I've never been to the winter derby, I hear there are alot more people there then the spring derby, WHY then is this derby also not cancelled??????????? No matter what anyone says (yeah I can just imagine the responses over this one) you can not honestly tell me that some (probably quite a few) of these fishermen/women who come up to be with their buddies eating/drinking/partying and fishing don't also catch a bunch of salmon while targeting rainbows? and improperly and illegally take a salmon out of the hole to photograph etc... and more then likely in some instances fry it up inside a bobhouse to eat? I personally feel that if I should have to suffer by not being able to fish in a Derby that I truly enjoy with good friends and family that I wait all year for and look forward too, then the hardwater guys should also lose this oppourtunity. Just my .02 Don't mean to P.O. anyone but I just don't think its fair to "All Fishermen/Women" Take Care God Bless LOL Dave



it's all a matter of money Dave

Re: This might P.O. a Few people But??????????

I understand that, but what about all the Money the local economy is gonna lose by not having the spring derby?????? I'd be willing to bet it's pretty close as far as the god almighty $$$$$$$$ goes? Hotels/Motels/Cottages/House rentals, Restaurants, Bait and Tackle shops, Gas Stations, Supermarkets etc... etc.... I'd be willing to bet its BIG $$$$$ lost in the region. Take Care God Bless LOL Dave

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

or the boating traffic may increase, i fish 4 people on my boat alot, if limited to 4 lines we would probably fish out of two boats. i dont fish winnie to often, just about never, but that would be my take on it. limiting the boat to four isnt all that fair, limiting an angler to one rod seems more fair, especially if there is more than four on the boat. so now with bringing two boats for 4 lines each boat, im covering more water and doing more environmental damage to the lake, and catching more fish because were finding them quicker. not really whats wanted in this case. with radios it just makes it even easier to locate fish, depths, locations, lure colors etc. its a bigger problem

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

you make a good point Fishlessman and I would think it would make the most reasonable alteration of existing rules to change number of lines in the water per angler since the current restriction is rods/angler based.

The only problem with it is MOST people I see out in the area I am fishing (not during the derby) only have 2 guys per boat. There are a lot more 16-18 foot boats out there than 23-27 footers that can hold a party of anglers. The ruling worded as rods/angler really cuts into the smaller boats that fit 2 or maybe 3 guys comfortably while still having the boat boat out there with enormous spreads.

I can see an arguement for both sides...someone is going to take it hard if lines are limited...I'm glad this thread has been civil to this point. Since it seems someone is going to suffer more than someone else for the resolution to work, there are going to be hurt feelings.

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

I would not support a rod limit rule change evan though we only run 4 lines 5 max evan with the planer boards out.The state does not provide us with a state boat access on winni,local public access is limited,which means most of us are paying 20 bucks just to put the boat on the lake.I can see myself not going up there at all with a rod limit change.That will help alot since we fish one day a week 4 times a month over six months X 30 fish per day ??? thats 720 fish left unharmed for the rest of you in a put and take fishery,gee whiz already,can't wait to see how the gov. is going to ram and cram this proposal.polebreaker

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

I think we're missing one important aspect of the spring derby. The Derby had a good sample set of fish that determined the overall average size of the fish was way down compared to other derby years. If it wasn't for the derby, I don't believe this corrective action would have taken place until it was a little too late. I understand that the biologists had data from the fall survey, but I'm not so sure such drastic action, and possibly actions,would have been taken based on just last year's results. Maybe the lake can be saved now instead of having it be totally decimated and having to start over from scratch, which would cost a great deal more money.

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

My point exactly live bait fishing out fishes hardware fishing at least 5-1 at ice-out, you say cut the line and let the fish go with hook embedded deep in its gut would we call that hook wounding look at the Rangeley Lakes in Maine no live bait you still get fish just not the numbers and if you want you can use sew on dead smelt and drift them it works not as good and requires more work so I say as a temp, solutions try it something needs to be done now.
PS same problem is going on with salt water striper fishing they need to stop the sale in Mass. To let the larger breeders survive or it will be gone too!!!

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

I've been fishing for Salmon for 30 years, I have participated in the derby most years, and have done the last 12 without missing a minute. I have seen it all!

I am so upset that the Derby has shut down as an answer to the problem. Does it contribute? probably does, but so many other things could have been tweaked to help eleveate the pressure, shutting the derby down was just the easy way out. The closed derby will not help things!

Fish Finder Equipt??? that was pretty lame. Maybe the 20 year old high tech geeks need them, but I don't need one to have a great numbers day, and most of you guys here don't either! Most of us know this pond like the back of our hands, we can find the fish based on memory based on temps and date! Last spring, just for the fun of it, my buddy and I chartered one of the big named guides! great guy, just like me but 15 years younger, he never had to look at the fish finder all day! So whom ever from the State threw that out, I would love to know who that idiot is!

The freeking fish are starving to death! That explains why the look that way, and it explains why they are hitting every lure you throw at them! We can all say YES we have noticed 30% of the fish have hook wounds when we catch them! However, If we are catching them, they are freeking hungary! do these fish and game guys think we are idiots?

Maybe if they took some of the revenue from the license sales and derby tag sales and spent it wisely, they could solve the problem!

also

i forgot:
1) I remember reading here several years ago, once a tournament on winni gives up it's date, it is done! The State will not allow any new ones. for you veterans...remember the Fall derby, once it took a year off, well it is still in hiatus! Winni Derby is now a thing for the history books!

2) Most of the time, the 5 biggest Guides are here on the site offering input on everything! Oddly enough, I can't find any input from these boys on this subject in any of the threads recently? whats up with that?

Re: also

They have most likely been told to remain silent by your friends at f&g.

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

Fish And Game use to stock the salmon. In several location around the lake.Now they stock only one location Gilford. I think it would be better to spread them out around the lake. Im sure they do this to save money. Also it seems to me that most peope release the salmon they catch. Why would the numbers of salmon be down. I guess this isn"t true or a lot of salmon are dying. It just doesn"t make sense to me. We caught more salmon last year then we ever have. And a lot of quality salmon. I guess we were just real lucky.

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

If their plan is to stop the derby for one year and then bring it back the following year, then this is foolish and not well thought out. If they truly feel the derby is the culprit, it will have to be put on the back burners for a minimumm of 3-5 years to see the true effect on the salmon population. One year will simply not be enough to prove any of these theories. I still honestly feel that stocking more browns and warmwater fish (walleye,pike,musky),that have a much better chance at reaching trophy sizes, will create more opportunities for anglers and take pressure of the salmon fishery.These fish could also eventually sustain themselves. A previous post mentioned that they feel cheated that the ice derby was not taken away instead. I fully understand your feelings but if anyone should feel they're getting the shaft, it is those people who desire a managed warmwater fishery in this state. Everyone pays the same license fee and none of it goes to bettering the warmwater fishery in our state. This is not only a shame, but downright neglectful! I love to fish for both warm and coldwater fish and I don't think anyone reading this could honestly say that both fisheries are treated and managed equally. Also,
I feel the above mentioned would discourage the bucket biologists from stupidly taking matters into their own hands by illegally stocking fish. Ironically, our crew had already decided to forgo this years derby in favor of a trip up to Champlain. It's sad this derby tradition had to end, but if it means we can have trophy salmon fishing on Winni again then I support it 100%. Unfortunately, I don't think cancelling the derby alone will solve the problem. I enjoy reading and respect all your opinions, whether I'm in agreement or not.

Chris

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

Before I get skewered, I meant to say that more warmwater fish should be stocked throughout the state, to give anglers more and different opportunities. I didn't mean to imply stock them solely in Winni. My bad for not proofreading better.

Chris

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

I do understand what your saying (in that F & G manages pretty much coldwater species) but how can you honestly beleive that if you were to put Pike/musky into Lake Winni, that the Salmon would still be ok? The Pike would Dessimate or wipe out the salmon population. Good example is the Big pike they caught in Sebago last year, it had a 14inch Salmon in its belly with another 10in salmon that was half digested. The pike would wipe out the salmon that are stocked within a matter of weeks as the smaller salmon would be easy prey for pike/musky. Just my .02 but I don't think the lake and the forage (smelt/white perch fry) could handle both species. Take Care God Bless LOL Dave

Re: SPRING DERBY CANCELLED

In my second post I tried to clarify I didn't mean put them in Winni. I feel more warmwater fish should be stocked throughout the state to take pressure off the coldwater fisheries, including Winni. It was late when I made these posts and I guess I didn't do a very good job explaining my points. My bad.