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Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

A few people have mentioned "one line per angler" vs "two lines per boat". As with most solutions there are victims of the solution and benefactors. The benefactors are:
-guides who regularly take out 4 people (plus them selves) will mow have a chance to make a living
-big boat guys who regularly bring our 4, 6, or 8 guys and will be able to continue dragging lots of lines (which was identified as one of the causes of the problem)

The victims are little boat guys:
-"we" can't fit more than 2 or maybe 3 guys in our boats...this solution for us is the same as "two lines per boat"

...just showing you the other perspective. 4 lines per boat seems a lot more "reasonable" and everyone is treated the same regardless of boat size with out going over board with an 8 or 10 line spread and guides would still be able to catch enough fish to win charters.

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

MikeF-NH
A few people have mentioned "one line per angler" vs "two lines per boat". As with most solutions there are victims of the solution and benefactors. The benefactors are:
-guides who regularly take out 4 people (plus them selves) will mow have a chance to make a living
-big boat guys who regularly bring our 4, 6, or 8 guys and will be able to continue dragging lots of lines (which was identified as one of the causes of the problem)

The victims are little boat guys:
-"we" can't fit more than 2 or maybe 3 guys in our boats...this solution for us is the same as "two lines per boat"

...just showing you the other perspective. 4 lines per boat seems a lot more "reasonable" and everyone is treated the same regardless of boat size with out going over board with an 8 or 10 line spread and guides would still be able to catch enough fish to win charters.


I hear ya Mike, but why should a guy fishing alone be allowed 2 poles and not be effected at all when everyone else be allowed 1 pole, or be forced to SHARE one or NONE. It's discrminatory, we all pay for a license.

Future anglers (kids) will not have the same benefits as we did growing up, having thier "OWN" pole may not be possible, they would more likely have to "SHARE" a pole. Not much fun for a kid.

I think a maximum number of poles is OK, but 2 is riduculous, set a reasonable number, it should not be a we/they, big boat/small/boat thing.

I'm against any change at all in the rod limits, leave it at two/per angler for another year or two and give everything a hard look in the meantime..

And find a way to make changes, if needed, in only the waters that need it. Every lake is different, they say July and August is like taking candy from a baby on Winni, on Squam and other Lakes it's the most difficult time of year to catch Salmon or any cold water species.

Sqaum has hardly any Lakers to contend with, they do not procreate in Squam, but do in all the others. So every Lake has it's own situation, how can they all be managed the same.

Want bigger fish, then fish Squam, Sunapee, Merrymeeting, etc. but be prepared for a skunk now and then, want lots of fish and more action, fish Winni. So if you can, fish the lakes that offer what you want.

Looking forward to more comments today and please try to send your comments to fish and game, they need to hear us.. For and against.

Have a nice day, sorry for another long post, I'll try and sit back more today and "zip my lips"

Big John

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

hey big john

if one guy alone can't have 2 lines out i'm going to switch to waterskis. or beer.

will you go out solo on the barge ...............on the days you are alone............if you can only put one line in the water. a lot of gas for an almost certain skunking on squam ?

i guess i hope for , as a comprimise, at least one angler = 2 lines, 2 or 3 anglers = 3 lines. More than 3 anglers = 4 lines.

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

floydo
hey big john

if one guy alone can't have 2 lines out i'm going to switch to waterskis. or beer.

will you go out solo on the barge ...............on the days you are alone............if you can only put one line in the water. a lot of gas for an almost certain skunking on squam ?

i guess i hope for , as a comprimise, at least one angler = 2 lines, 2 or 3 anglers = 3 lines. More than 3 anglers = 4 lines.


I've allways tried to go it alone if needed, but when it's windy, forget it, two lines when you are alone on that boat is sometimes too much work.

I think we are all pretty much in agreement that 2 lines per boat is a little (allot) harsh, except for some die hard loners, in which case are not effected at all.

Changing all the lines today, get ready, boat is still covered and stripped. But it wont be long now, you can have two lines if ya want, you're (we are)too old to water ski.

Big John

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

are there any changes effective this year ?

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

I don't think they'll take affect this year because they have to publish them in the Fishing Digest which is already out. Although nobody can guarentee they won't publish an addendum with rule changes, I don't think that is likely.

It would be a shame if they pass these rules that take affect in 2011 and this fall they get 500 3# salmon at Melvin and then say "oops, it wasn't the pressure, it was just an off year and hatchery changes made the difference"...2011 would already be ruined.

I'm hoping "the sky is falling" crowd back off and say "lets see if fishermen self-regulating and hatchery changes make a difference for a few years before enacting sweeping reforms to current laws".

While fishermen will be a vocal demographic in communicating with Fish and Game and the legislature, I'm hoping the local merchants in the local communities foresee this affect on their businesses and speak out also. If they do not, I will 100% make efforts NOT to buy ANY thing around the lake from April-June. (I always try to buy some supplies when I travel up there to bring some money in locally)

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

Well said Floydo. I'm with you !

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

Hi,
Mike F is making the most sense. 2 lines per angler with a maximum of 4 lines per boat. Everyone should be able to live with this and still catch fish and not feel like they're wasting their time and money. This wouldn't affect the solo angler and still allow charters and those who fish on larger boats to put out a decent spread. F&G are you listening? Before you tick off everyone adopt what was stated above and I think there would be less resistance to these changes.

Also,I must mention one other thing that has always bugged me. Why the insistence on having these 10 lakes managed for salmon? Why not make 3-4 of these lakes into trophy brown trout fisheries. I'm not saying which ones. Let the experts figure out which of these lakes would be best suited for browns and just do it. My fondest memory and best fight I ever had in this state was that of a 7 lb. brown about 8 years ago while trolling. Sadly, I realize this was probably the last time I would be lucky enough to hook into one of these brutes in NH. I've caught salmon close to 5 lbs. in the "good ole days" and I still say the fight that brown gave me was far superior in every aspect. Think of it; browns don't rely so heavily on smelt, chow on crayfish, would gorge themselves on young perch and are more difficult to catch than salmon. All this adds up to big fish! Who wouldn't want to get the chance to tangle with an 8 lb plus brown in this state? Is anybody else on board with this idea?

Thanks,
Chris

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

chris
Hi,
Mike F is making the most sense. 2 lines per angler with a maximum of 4 lines per boat. Everyone should be able to live with this and still catch fish and not feel like they're wasting their time and money. This wouldn't affect the solo angler and still allow charters and those who fish on larger boats to put out a decent spread. F&G are you listening? Before you tick off everyone adopt what was stated above and I think there would be less resistance to these changes.

Also,I must mention one other thing that has always bugged me. Why the insistence on having these 10 lakes managed for salmon? Why not make 3-4 of these lakes into trophy brown trout fisheries. I'm not saying which ones. Let the experts figure out which of these lakes would be best suited for browns and just do it. My fondest memory and best fight I ever had in this state was that of a 7 lb. brown about 8 years ago while trolling. Sadly, I realize this was probably the last time I would be lucky enough to hook into one of these brutes in NH. I've caught salmon close to 5 lbs. in the "good ole days" and I still say the fight that brown gave me was far superior in every aspect. Think of it; browns don't rely so heavily on smelt, chow on crayfish, would gorge themselves on young perch and are more difficult to catch than salmon. All this adds up to big fish! Who wouldn't want to get the chance to tangle with an 8 lb plus brown in this state? Is anybody else on board with this idea?

Thanks,
Chris


I agree on allot of what you say, I think 6 lines might be better than 4, but that's only me and I have a bigger boat. Maybe line numbers should be determind some by boat size too ???

Many of you are able to trailer your boats and fish wherever you want, so different bigger Lakes maybe should be managed differently and perhaps focus on other cold water species, great idea.

Some of us are "Landlocked" to certain lakes, be it too big a boat to easily trailer, having a camp and dock on a particular lake, etc. And yet I too trailer over to Winni a couple of times a year, I bought a trailer for that one reason..

So why is Winni so popular with cold water anglers and draw so many folks from all around New England ??? Is it because of the huge fish, I don't think so. If so they wouldn't be fishing Winni with some other lakes known for bigger fish within a few miles of it. I think it's because Winni was designed to offer a big catch rate and certainly it does just that, it's what it was designed for. Even the novice cold water guy can score a few fish easily. Winni can aslo handle much more boat pressure, it's huge in comparison to other area lakes..

Now for some reason, a few are not very happy with Winni's Salmon quality, and I repeat "a few". Most guys I talk to are not that concerned about the lack of 5 and 6 pound Salmon they just like lots of action
all day long. And why is it nobody complains about the Rainbow quality, same lake, same forage, etc, but the Salmon take the stage over all other cold water species, why ?????????????

Back to Browns, when we were at Powder Mill Hatchery 2 weeks ago, we saw a few pools with 1000's of bigger fish. They were 2.6 to a pound "Browns", they were huge compared to the (I assume) same age Salmon. Later I asked someone at Fish and Game how old they were and the question wasn't answered (not sure why) But if they were the same age as the yearling Salmon we saw that day, wow, what a difference, these fish were huge. Think of it 2.6 to a pound and the Salmon were 11 to a pound the same day ???

Again sorry for the long post, I get carried away easily (as long as you don't have to lift me) but I think your idea is a super one, do we need 24 Salmon Lakes, me thinks not.

Big John

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

I second the motion to investigate the possibility of Browns, not necessarily in Winni but somewhere!

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

One of the Lakes is already stocked with Browns. Lake Francis in Pittsburg.They have been stocking browns in that lake for quite a few years. But ive never heard any one catching any very big browns.Just in the rivers.

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

triple D
One of the Lakes is already stocked with Browns. Lake Francis in Pittsburg.They have been stocking browns in that lake for quite a few years. But ive never heard any one catching any very big browns.Just in the rivers.


That's in Canada aint it, lol. Long trip for The Barge, you and your brother ready, have to be diet pulled Pork this year.

Big John

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

John looks like its going to be a challangeing year. Not hearing any thing from fish and game, About whats going on is making me nervous. Now there not coming to the gathering. Don"t sound good to me. Hows the shoulder and knee.

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

triple D
John looks like its going to be a challangeing year. Not hearing any thing from fish and game, About whats going on is making me nervous. Now there not coming to the gathering. Don"t sound good to me. Hows the shoulder and knee.


Shoulder is better than it's been in 20 years and I expect to get even better. Knee is on hold, feels OK, not that bad at all. Cortisone shot did the job for now and he says maybe will fix it, but I can feel there is a problem, but no pain. so we will wait and see, it is minor surgery anyhow, nothing like the shoulder.

Those were the easy answers, Fish and Game is probably afraid to show up, nervous that we might lynch them, in a way I don't blame them. I think it will all work out, they want to cut pretty deep 1st go around but I think that will change.

Big John

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

Link
I second the motion to investigate the possibility of Browns, not necessarily in Winni but somewhere!


They put Brown Trout in Bow Lake every year. Never caught one when I use to fish it. Caught a lot of Rainbows though.
Cal

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

Hi,
Just to clarify what I said earlier. I would like to see browns go into one of the larger lakes in the state (for example Merrymeeting,Ossippee,Newfound) where they truly have the chance to reach trophy size.I'm not saying which lake in particular, F&G should decide that. Dedicate 3-4 of the so called "salmon lakes" and try and make them trophy brown fisheries. Make it the only trout species stocked. People could then fish these lakes for browns or lakers. Why do salmon have to be stocked in all these lakes? Is this a law I'm unaware of? Lastly,the state must designate some of these lakes as "trophy lakes" and put in slot limits to protect the fish so they have a good shot at growing large. Stock larger fish in these lakes (1.5-2 lbs)and protect them.Lake X in NH is stocked by a private association with big browns from the get go. I used to catch them over 4 lbs out of here every year until word got out and now this lake gets absolutely hammered and the fishing has gone way downhill. It's too small of a lake to support this kind of pressure. The point I'm trying to make is if you stock big fish to start in a larger lake, you have a much better chance at growing even bigger fish. Don't make every lake follow the put and take mentality. If you fish to catch dinner then these lakes obviously wouldn't be high on your list. That's okay, go to a lake designed for you to harvest fish to eat (ie... put and take lakes). I'm not trying to tick anybody off. I just think there are plenty of waterbodies in the state that could be managed differently to suit different angler's interests.

Thanks,
Chris

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

ive caught plenty of browns in ossippee and have seen some really nice sized ones. picked one up just under 4 pounds during the derby. rainbows brookies, salmon, its one of those lakes your not sure what you have til you get it in. i like browns in a lake because the big ones are just that much more difficult to catch, rainbows to me are a waiste of money for the state, they probably put them in because they are easy to catch. big browns in conway as well, swing by the dam in mid november and you will see some monsters spawning, dont know if they take, but they try anyways

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

Good post fishlessman. I've caught some nice browns out of Ossipee as well. I'd like to see it be the primary trout species stocked there as well. Stock all browns and forgot about the salmon and rainbows and we could possibly have a trophy fishery there. The only problem is if it were the only large lake in the state to offer a trophy brown fishery,word would get out and it would get hammered into oblivion. Make 3-4 lakes like this, spread out the pressure, and who knows what the results could be. Until it's given a fair shot, we'll never know.

Chris

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

youve probably seen me post this before but i dont like rainbows stocked in nh. i know another smaller lake that had a nice smelt population and was producing huge browns, not many, but up into the 9 pound range. then they started adding bows, too many bows, and the big browns are just about gone. wont mention the name of the lake as it certianly cant take the pressure.

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

My opinion on some of this as a NH fisherman is.....

1-3 agreed

4 This is absurd, between fishermen traveling, dodging tourists on the water and license fees it sure makes it sound like they don't want anyone to fish.

5 I strongly believe this one should be debated, what about guides? Do they want to shut down the guides? Maybe one line per person on the boat up to 6 lines max.

7 Can someone clarify this one, I am a frenchman and I just don't get it, no culling allowed?

Have a great day and hopefully a great season.
--------------------------------------------------------


The following are the proposed rule changes:

1. A cast of artificial flies means no more than 3 flies attached to a line....

2 trolling means angling by trailing a line from a watercraft/vessel being propelled by mechanical wind or manual power....

3 when trolling only one artificial bait or one fly or one tandem fly or one bait shall be used per line.

4 10 waters managed for trout and salmon.... From April 1 through September 30
reduce the bag limit to one lake trout or one salmon or one brook trout....

5 from April 1 through December 31 no more than 2 lines per watercraft can be used while trolling these ten defined waters.

6 increase the daily bag limit for silver lake in Madison to the four fish bag limit.

7 prohibit the possession of live freshwater fish with exception of tournaments as well as allowed for bait.[/quote]

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

Bruce LaBarge Sr
My opinion on some of this as a NH fisherman is.....

you could have live bait in the boat but all fish that you keep must be killed as i understand it



1-3 agreed

4 This is absurd, between fishermen traveling, dodging tourists on the water and license fees it sure makes it sound like they don't want anyone to fish.

5 I strongly believe this one should be debated, what about guides? Do they want to shut down the guides? Maybe one line per person on the boat up to 6 lines max.

7 Can someone clarify this one, I am a frenchman and I just don't get it, no culling allowed?

Have a great day and hopefully a great season.
--------------------------------------------------------


The following are the proposed rule changes:

1. A cast of artificial flies means no more than 3 flies attached to a line....

2 trolling means angling by trailing a line from a watercraft/vessel being propelled by mechanical wind or manual power....

3 when trolling only one artificial bait or one fly or one tandem fly or one bait shall be used per line.

4 10 waters managed for trout and salmon.... From April 1 through September 30
reduce the bag limit to one lake trout or one salmon or one brook trout....

5 from April 1 through December 31 no more than 2 lines per watercraft can be used while trolling these ten defined waters.

6 increase the daily bag limit for silver lake in Madison to the four fish bag limit.

7 prohibit the possession of live freshwater fish with exception of tournaments as well as allowed for bait.
[/quote]

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

Hi folks,

Liza here from F&G. Thanks for the very civil conversation and your ideas on how to improve the salmon fishery!

Since it's not been made totally clear, the "proposals" that went to the F&G commission were not the final proposals - they were concepts brought to the meeting for further discussion and input from the commissioners. At this point, the proposal ideas are still in draft form. When final text for the initial proposals are ready, they will then go through a rigorous public process, which includes a public hearing and comment period.

Then, after consideration of comments heard during this early drafting stage for rules, we'll be able to tell you more. Please rest assured that the 2-line restriction is NOT under consideration.

As more information becomes available and the initial proposal is developed, public hearing and comment period dates are set we will post it on the F&G website and I'll try to remember to put links here as well. It's my understanding that our fisheries chief, Steve Perry, will be at the fishlakewinni.com gathering on Sunday to answer questions.

Best regards,
Liza Poinier
NH Fish and Game
www.wildnh.com

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

Liza Poinier
Hi folks,

Liza here from F&G. Thanks for the very civil conversation and your ideas on how to improve the salmon fishery!

Since it's not been made totally clear, the "proposals" that went to the F&G commission were not the final proposals - they were concepts brought to the meeting for further discussion and input from the commissioners. At this point, the proposal ideas are still in draft form. When final text for the initial proposals are ready, they will then go through a rigorous public process, which includes a public hearing and comment period.

Then, after consideration of comments heard during this early drafting stage for rules, we'll be able to tell you more. Please rest assured that the 2-line restriction is NOT under consideration.

As more information becomes available and the initial proposal is developed, public hearing and comment period dates are set we will post it on the F&G website and I'll try to remember to put links here as well. It's my understanding that our fisheries chief, Steve Perry, will be at the fishlakewinni.com gathering on Sunday to answer questions.

Best regards,
Liza Poinier
NH Fish and Game
www.wildnh.com


Thank you for the update Liza!!!

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

All this concern about 2 lines per boat. Talk about going off half cocked.
Well maybe it was not all in vain. Maybe F&G got some insight as to our concerns and saw some good recommendations from our group.
Cal

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

Thanks to checking in with us here Liza. It's also great that Steve is coming to the Gathering.

There were some ideas proposed here on this forum that might also merit consideration from F&G when reviewing proposals.

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

Thank you Liza for the update! Just what the Dr. ordered!

Matt

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

Thanks for the thanks :)

Your insights are indeed appreciated. No doubt that the next round of proposals will benefit from this good conversation.

Liza

Re: Proposed Rule Changes for Cold Water Species

Liza,
I must say I'm impressed that F&G is keeping an ear open to concerned anglers and replying on this site. Any thoughts on a trophy brown trout fishery being established here in NH?(see previous posts) Thanks again for your reply.

Chris