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Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

My point was:

The shame is that none of them can play, it is based purely on not being able to fill the team due to low numbers. The coach in most cases has no idea what type of player they are but if the 8th grader played Town B hockey and can skate they are in, and starting as a freshman. Its pathetic what has happened to the program.

The coach inquired where my son was planning on going to middle school when he was in fifth grade based on the fact that he played club hockey. He is not stud by any stretch so that tells you where public school HS hockey is at these days.

Also a lot of times the coaches do camps or youth hockey teams as well so they are familiar with a lot of the kids so knowing an 8th grader could play is not that far fetched.

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

Anon
My point was:

The shame is that none of them can play, it is based purely on not being able to fill the team due to low numbers. The coach in most cases has no idea what type of player they are but if the 8th grader played Town B hockey and can skate they are in, and starting as a freshman. Its pathetic what has happened to the program.

The coach inquired where my son was planning on going to middle school when he was in fifth grade based on the fact that he played club hockey. He is not stud by any stretch so that tells you where public school HS hockey is at these days.

Also a lot of times the coaches do camps or youth hockey teams as well so they are familiar with a lot of the kids so knowing an 8th grader could play is not that far fetched.

i am NOT an athletic director but as a coach, have close dealings with them. this is their thinking:

this is a HIGH SCHOOL team. the goal of the administration to create an atmosphere in which a HIGH SCHOOL student can enjoy their experience. part of that experience includes trying out for a sport in which they have an interest in. that means a HIGH SCHOOL student, yes even one of low ability, shall be given priory of those that do NOT attend this school. the goal of the athletic department is to encourage and increase the participation rate of their HIGH SCHOOL students in their offerings (much like any optional departments: latin, music, theater). the 'higher' ups look for this far more than 'wins'. why? athletes TEND (there are too many examples proving 'never' is incorrect) to get into less trouble (in and out of school), get better grades, have a lower drop out rate and have a more positive attitude than those that do not. and AD's desire a higher participation rate because then their budget will increase AND it looks good for them at review time or when moving to another school system.

most schools have an unwritten policy that no four year seniors are to be cut (a player that played either JV or V for the prior 3 years). if a player is not expected to make the V as a senior they should be cut as a junior so [direct quote] "they be given the opportunity to try another sport".

yes: participation rate > wins.

so 8th graders are asked only if the sport is in danger of failing (due to player count not wins). and i agree. no HIGH SCHOOL student should be excluded because their parents did not have the foresight to start them years ago.

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

You know beatcuff, you're starting to grow on me.

Any opinion on 'Title IX' and what it means for athletic programs specifically hockey? I'd like to hear what a H.S. coach thinks of this.

Thanks

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

Anon
Any opinion on 'Title IX' and what it means for athletic programs specifically hockey? I'd like to hear what a H.S. coach thinks of this. Thanks


understanding i am a winter girls hockey coach --- you really need to see thru the smoke: not my team but a colleague wanted a jv (boys) ice hockey team. the AD said no. he said the booster would pay. the AD said no. AD claimed they would have to have a jv team for the girls as well, as they were 'out of balance'. but a year later, circling back the AD was simply avoiding adding another scheduling 'headache': their school did NOT have their own rink.

each school must offer (+/- 1) the same number of SPORTS not teams. So football has 3 sometimes 4 teams. But counts only as 1 sport. and it makes sense as i am not aware of ANY girls football teams, yet the boys have 3 (debunking what that AD said above).

frankly boys are much more likely to play sports than girls. to help the MIAA is generous with the co-ops for girls. a couple of years ago Masco girls ice hockey team had SEVEN schools as part of their co-op. By sending just ONE player to this co-op the school was credited with 1 sport.

now to your question --- football rules: period. then boys ice hockey then boys basketball then.... well after the big 3 its basically a tie for all the rest --- winning programs in front but not by much.

and remembering the administration and AD's desire strong participation numbers, therefore any reasonable AD will ensure the big 3 are preserved. especially football as they can have 80+ players with minimal cost (v ice cost). so if you hear rumblings of a big 3 being cut. more than likely it is a cost issue, they are tired of a coach but can't fire him or the AD is simply not willing to put in the additional effort (and not a slam on them, they are already juggling dozens of teams each season and hiring coaches and dealing with parents oh and then a city has a concert on the field, destroying it).

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

I think our school eye-balls actual participation numbers as well as sports / teams. I think in our town Football can have Freshmen, JV, Varsity as it's off set by Dance Team, Cheerleading and Field Hockey. Then they capture more female participants to even it out by having a couple 'no cut sports' like Track, Cross Country and Crew.

We have paid Varsity Boys Hockey assistant coaches due to it being a large program - guys hoping to one day be the varsity coach. The audit uncovered the relatively newly launched Girls Varsity Ice Hockey program had volunteer assistant coaches - just young women who were willing to help out a team they once played on - and the finding was they needed to be paid. Imagine being a 22 year old and getting the call that you need to take $6,500 a year for the past three of four years for hanging out with the girls hockey team.

If you ever get to read a Title IX State Audit of a program it is quality reading....I wonder if their findings are 'public records'?

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

anon
I think our school eye-balls actual participation numbers as well as sports / teams. I think in our town Football can have Freshmen, JV, Varsity as it's off set by Dance Team, Cheerleading and Field Hockey. Then they capture more female participants to even it out by having a couple 'no cut sports' like Track, Cross Country and Crew.

We have paid Varsity Boys Hockey assistant coaches due to it being a large program - guys hoping to one day be the varsity coach. The audit uncovered the relatively newly launched Girls Varsity Ice Hockey program had volunteer assistant coaches - just young women who were willing to help out a team they once played on - and the finding was they needed to be paid. Imagine being a 22 year old and getting the call that you need to take $6,500 a year for the past three of four years for hanging out with the girls hockey team.

If you ever get to read a Title IX State Audit of a program it is quality reading....I wonder if their findings are 'public records'?


i am far from an expert on this topic. i am only offering what i have seen or heard. there appears to be many 'safe harbors' (if you do x or y you are safe). i have noticed any time a mom of a girl complains about a boy team it is quickly resolved in the mom's favor (within reason). i can only guess the department is avoiding a formal inquiry.

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

If your kid is as big as an average junior or senior then go for it. If under 160 pounds don't rush it. Too many idiot parents do this. I know one eighth grade parent now that is going to let his tiny kid try and play on their crappy high school team. Kid weighs 105 pounds soaking wet. He will be one hit away from his high school hockey career ending.

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

Anon
If your kid is as big as an average junior or senior then go for it. If under 160 pounds don't rush it. Too many idiot parents do this. I know one eighth grade parent now that is going to let his tiny kid try and play on their crappy high school team. Kid weighs 105 pounds soaking wet. He will be one hit away from his high school hockey career ending.


Good thing the NHL doesn't abide by your 160lb weight threshold !

https://www.nhl.com/player/johnny-gaudreau-8476346


Where do you guys come up with this stuff ???

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

You should definitely send your 100lb kid out on the ice with 200 pounders and see what happens

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

Anon
You should definitely send your 100lb kid out on the ice with 200 pounders and see what happens


I'm guessing he will skate circles around most of them.

You do know that the average size of an nhl player now is like 180 lbs. The days of 200 pounds to make it to the show are done. Get your dated 80's mentality and false logic out of here.

AND one of the top area kids who is an 85 lb 14 year old dominates U16 and plays U18, occasional he gets crushed and gets back up, the remainder of the game he is setting the tempo and dominating the play.... and oh yea, he is a defenseman !


and you think a 100lb 14 year old will have problems with local area high school hockey ???? lol

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

Anon
Anon
You should definitely send your 100lb kid out on the ice with 200 pounders and see what happens


I'm guessing he will skate circles around most of them.

You do know that the average size of an nhl player now is like 180 lbs. The days of 200 pounds to make it to the show are done. Get your dated 80's mentality and false logic out of here.

AND one of the top area kids who is an 85 lb 14 year old dominates U16 and plays U18, occasional he gets crushed and gets back up, the remainder of the game he is setting the tempo and dominating the play.... and oh yea, he is a defenseman !


and you think a 100lb 14 year old will have problems with local area high school hockey ???? lol



A 100 lb 14 year old might literally get killed playing high school. High school hockey is GOON hockey!! U16 and U18 club is like two hand touch in comparison.

Oh , and the lightest team in NHL is the Blackhawks at 193 lb average. Heaviest, Kings at 208. Most teams 197 -203. Bruins right in the middle at 200. Dream on about your tyke making the Show...

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

Nice work on the fact checking. Very accurate. I have a freshman son it was 130 pounds and I feel he is undersized to play Varsity this year.

And who is this top 85 pound u14 you speak of?

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

Never said anything about my kid, making the show, no dreams or aspirations to play that high, because he is a realist. But being undersized is not an issue of his, I was just making a point.

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

Anon

And who is this top 85 pound u14 you speak of?


2. Timothy Lovell, #7 Grey, Boston Advantage – His skills are top shelf. Smart. Great stick. Really fun to watch. However, he is tiny and can be pushed around. If he grows he could be a David Warsofsky type. Son of former Maine F Tim Lovell. Left shot.

Link : http://www.bostonadvantagehockey.com/news/120/advantage-producing-players


Kid is under 5' and under 85 lbs. and comes out of the mid Atlantic showcase invite ranked #2 out of the top 24 D men in the mid Atlantic region.

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

TL transferred to UMASS Amherst and got suspended for violation of NCAA rules and academically red shirted. Too bad because he was good!!

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

Anon
Anon

And who is this top 85 pound u14 you speak of?


2. Timothy Lovell, #7 Grey, Boston Advantage – His skills are top shelf. Smart. Great stick. Really fun to watch. However, he is tiny and can be pushed around. If he grows he could be a David Warsofsky type. Son of former Maine F Tim Lovell. Left shot.

Link : http://www.bostonadvantagehockey.com/news/120/advantage-producing-players


Kid is under 5' and under 85 lbs. and comes out of the mid Atlantic showcase invite ranked #2 out of the top 24 D men in the mid Atlantic region.


He's a very skilled kid but he's just a novelty act. Way under 5'--4'7" maybe. 85 lbs is reaching. It is a shame. Should be on growth hormones. Would not last a period in high school hockey.

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

I think size is a family problem that limited TL's prospects as well. Why on earth work Dad put him through it as a defensemen? Same goes for the Little Super Star currently playing at BC. Got ran over in high school hockey, got ran over in the USHL and now is getting run over at BC. When will someone bite the bit and move the kid upfront??? To paraphrase Waylon Jennings, " Daddy don't let your babies grow-up to be undersized defensemen."

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

anon
Anon
Anon

And who is this top 85 pound u14 you speak of?


2. Timothy Lovell, #7 Grey, Boston Advantage – His skills are top shelf. Smart. Great stick. Really fun to watch. However, he is tiny and can be pushed around. If he grows he could be a David Warsofsky type. Son of former Maine F Tim Lovell. Left shot.

Link : http://www.bostonadvantagehockey.com/news/120/advantage-producing-players


Kid is under 5' and under 85 lbs. and comes out of the mid Atlantic showcase invite ranked #2 out of the top 24 D men in the mid Atlantic region.


He's a very skilled kid but he's just a novelty act. Way under 5'--4'7" maybe. 85 lbs is reaching. It is a shame. Should be on growth hormones. Would not last a period in high school hockey.


I agree he is small, like the same exact height and weight as my 11yo. maybe 4'9 and closer to 75 pounds, but I was being generous given the sub 160 pound comment. And I always heared he will get killed playing U16 when he was thirteen, he dominated. Then it was he will not last a shift playing U18 due to his size, then he ran the offense while his 6'0 205 D partner towered over him, and once again he held his own. I still hear he would not last at high school and I don't know why people say that, what high school ??? because the majority of them he would be the best player on the ice. Watch him play, it is very very impressive. He has suffered some hits and possible concussions which may eventually end his career early, but if he can grow to even 5'6 or 5'7 and put on some size with age, then watch out. Sky is the limit for this kid.

I think he was the only 13 yo to even get a sniff of the USNDP for U14, and that was when he was 4'9 and like 70 lbs.

I have seen more kids stand around in awe watching him, or making bad plays in an attempt to run him that it makes him look even better than he is.

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

Anon
anon
Anon
Anon

And who is this top 85 pound u14 you speak of?


2. Timothy Lovell, #7 Grey, Boston Advantage – His skills are top shelf. Smart. Great stick. Really fun to watch. However, he is tiny and can be pushed around. If he grows he could be a David Warsofsky type. Son of former Maine F Tim Lovell. Left shot.

Link : http://www.bostonadvantagehockey.com/news/120/advantage-producing-players


Kid is under 5' and under 85 lbs. and comes out of the mid Atlantic showcase invite ranked #2 out of the top 24 D men in the mid Atlantic region.


He's a very skilled kid but he's just a novelty act. Way under 5'--4'7" maybe. 85 lbs is reaching. It is a shame. Should be on growth hormones. Would not last a period in high school hockey.


I agree he is small, like the same exact height and weight as my 11yo. maybe 4'9 and closer to 75 pounds, but I was being generous given the sub 160 pound comment. And I always heared he will get killed playing U16 when he was thirteen, he dominated. Then it was he will not last a shift playing U18 due to his size, then he ran the offense while his 6'0 205 D partner towered over him, and once again he held his own. I still hear he would not last at high school and I don't know why people say that, what high school ??? because the majority of them he would be the best player on the ice. Watch him play, it is very very impressive. He has suffered some hits and possible concussions which may eventually end his career early, but if he can grow to even 5'6 or 5'7 and put on some size with age, then watch out. Sky is the limit for this kid.

I think he was the only 13 yo to even get a sniff of the USNDP for U14, and that was when he was 4'9 and like 70 lbs.

I have seen more kids stand around in awe watching him, or making bad plays in an attempt to run him that it makes him look even better than he is.


OK, it's decided, the little guy is good and can skate with the big boys. Should make everyone happy but I'm sure it doesn't. Getting back to the original poster. If he's an 02 8th grader and wants to give it a shot, let him give it a try if he's got the skill and ability to play with JV's that are typically 14-16 years old. The way the system works is need based (In the MIAA anyway,) and has to be open to any and all 8th graders. Any 8th grader that try's out has to be given at least a spot on JV team. (Cant cut if you're telling the MIAA you need 8th grade bodies to keep the program going.) Just bear in mind that the program you're leaving will probably have more ice time, skills and games than the typical JV team, and it's tough to do both because kids are not allowed to miss high school meetings, practices or games for a non-high school team. The one 8th grade kid that the coach probably has his eye on (typically a goalie) will get pulled up to varsity and probably do a lot of sitting, but may (or may not) benefit from the practice time with the older kids. As always, it's up to you to know what's right for you're kid. Good luck!

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

Anon
I agree he is small, like the same exact height and weight as my 11yo. maybe 4'9 and closer to 75 pounds, but I was being generous given the sub 160 pound comment. And I always heared he will get killed playing U16 when he was thirteen, he dominated. Then it was he will not last a shift playing U18 due to his size, then he ran the offense while his 6'0 205 D partner towered over him, and once again he held his own. I still hear he would not last at high school and I don't know why people say that, what high school ??? because the majority of them he would be the best player on the ice. Watch him play, it is very very impressive. He has suffered some hits and possible concussions which may eventually end his career early, but if he can grow to even 5'6 or 5'7 and put on some size with age, then watch out. Sky is the limit for this kid.

I think he was the only 13 yo to even get a sniff of the USNDP for U14, and that was when he was 4'9 and like 70 lbs.

I have seen more kids stand around in awe watching him, or making bad plays in an attempt to run him that it makes him look even better than he is.


slightly confused here... we are talking about a defenseman? as in one that at some point has to stand in front of his net and cover and/or clear a player out. i guess too many here think a D only has to carry a puck. if he is truly that gifted with the puck, then move him up and let him be creative.

as HS is much different from juniors. HS: most are trying to impress their GF (or their friends GF), nothing gets you more noticed than ANY type of hit. Juniors: trying to impress upper level coaches that are looking for size, speed, skill and IQ (and not necessarily in that order). went to a premier VJW game last week: i could count the hits on one hand; and the upper half would dominate most HS teams. its a different game.

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

beatcuff
slightly confused here... we are talking about a defenseman? as in one that at some point has to stand in front of his net and cover and/or clear a player out. i guess too many here think a D only has to carry a puck. if he is truly that gifted with the puck, then move him up and let him be creative.


He is plenty creative with the puck, clearly you have yet to see this kid play. And his puck skills are not holding him back as a defensman one bit, especially to be a top ranked D at his size and have interest by the National team at age 13.


But, hey you must know the game better and want him to play forward. He would be probablly still get the looks if he was playing forward, but it is no mistake that he plays D. Its all in the numbers as the herd thins as your reach the top (pssst....the game has changed my friend)

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

The game has changed but come on. The guy saying "if he can grow to even 5'6 or 5'7 and put on some size with age, then watch out" is out of his gourd. There is no place for a 5'6" defensemen. Watch 5'9" 180 lbs. Torey Krug. Short little crappy strides, too slow, no reach, gets killed in front of the net and all he is is a way overpaid, bottom pairing, power play specialist and he is a one in a million! Look at our old pal Lil' Tidbit, lead the Q in scoring for two straight years and is a magician with the puck and at 5'8" for a forward and he gets no respect. Look at the Little Super Star (5'8") at BC and everyone in H.S. was "oh look at his skating, look at his skating..." and look at him with the big boys. Undersized and the skating isn't all that special now is it? TL is no fool, if the kid doesn't grow he will move him up front.

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

anon
The game has changed but come on. The guy saying "if he can grow to even 5'6 or 5'7 and put on some size with age, then watch out" is out of his gourd. There is no place for a 5'6" defensemen. Watch 5'9" 180 lbs. Torey Krug. Short little crappy strides, too slow, no reach, gets killed in front of the net and all he is is a way overpaid, bottom pairing, power play specialist and he is a one in a million! Look at our old pal Lil' Tidbit, lead the Q in scoring for two straight years and is a magician with the puck and at 5'8" for a forward and he gets no respect. Look at the Little Super Star (5'8") at BC and everyone in H.S. was "oh look at his skating, look at his skating..." and look at him with the big boys. Undersized and the skating isn't all that special now is it? TL is no fool, if the kid doesn't grow he will move him up front.


The only place Tim will be moving him is to operations. He's got a great future as a skating instructor--think even smaller Besa...

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

Anon
But, hey you must know the game better and want him to play forward. He would be probablly still get the looks if he was playing forward, but it is no mistake that he plays D. Its all in the numbers as the herd thins as your reach the top (pssst....the game has changed my friend)


NUMBERS --- you mean like these:

https://hockey-graphs.com/2015/02/19/nhl-player-size-from-1917-18-to-2014-15-a-brief-look/

for the lazy ones: since the 90's avg height 6'+ weight 200+ --- ALL skaters, although it has plateaued for several years.

now he COULD make it, but just how many 'Torey Krug' positions are available v small wings?

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

beatcuff
Anon
But, hey you must know the game better and want him to play forward. He would be probablly still get the looks if he was playing forward, but it is no mistake that he plays D. Its all in the numbers as the herd thins as your reach the top (pssst....the game has changed my friend)


NUMBERS --- you mean like these:

https://hockey-graphs.com/2015/02/19/nhl-player-size-from-1917-18-to-2014-15-a-brief-look/

for the lazy ones: since the 90's avg height 6'+ weight 200+ --- ALL skaters, although it has plateaued for several years.

now he COULD make it, but just how many 'Torey Krug' positions are available v small wings?


Yea, you don't get it.. "The numbers" was a reference to the lesser numbers of D compared to available F at the upper levels.

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

If a kid is strong decent size, A "smart" player that keeps head up, skilled enough and assuming the coach will use him in situations that are fitting, why hold him back. Yes there's a chance he could get hurt but there's a chance they can all get hurt. What a about those kids that didn't even start playing hockey till 7th or 8th grade and then get on a HS team skating with head down and don't know the game. That's an even worse scenario! I'de rather see a skilled 8th grader with good hockey sense out there.

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

I have no idea what school your kid goes to but "What a about those kids that didn't even start playing hockey till 7th or 8th grade and then get on a HS team skating with head down" doesn't happen at our H.S. Kids that start in the 2nd or 3rd grade are late bloomers for most average to good teams.

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

beatcuff


so 8th graders are asked only if the sport is in danger of failing (due to player count not wins). and i agree. no HIGH SCHOOL student should be excluded because their parents did not have the foresight to start them years ago.


This is the crux of it ^

Again, this is only going ON in my area because the team/school demonstrated that the entire program would fold because they could not field a team, and therefore got the 8th grade waiver. Maybe two 8th graders are playing.

So the high school participation is nice, but there would be zero participation due to the lack of kids

Re: Can a 8th grader play HS

sounds like a great team to be on.