Ice Hockey DBoard

The Official New England Ice Hockey DBoard 


Click Here to Visit Our Facebook Page

email: icehockeydboard@yahoo.com

High School & Prep Hockey
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
View Entire Thread
Re: Judging good D

Anon
Anon
Always seeing posts about “ forwards “ and how many goals or assists they get, how good they are and we’re they may likely go. I know it’s a little easier to quantify a forwards skills at this level with how many points they put up. How about the D ? Is it skating, blocking shots, break out passes, corner battles , D to d play on offensive zone , being consistent in the D zone ? Let’s say they don’t put up points very frequently .
IMO, in the absence of stat tracking you can use gap control as a proxy for many important individual defenseman qualities. If they have good gap control they have to have a lot of supporting skills (skating, angling, hockey IQ, etc.) that have to be good too. It\\\'s not a statistic and, yes, it\\\'s subjective, but it will drive defensive stats like plus-minus, TOI, and Corsi (which I think is a good defenseman measure) but nobody\\\'s keeping track of that level of detail at the youth or high-school level. That\\\'s why I suggest a proxy like gap control because it is the foundation of success in those stats if they were being tracked.
Corsi?


Duncan Keith’s viral Corsi joke raises interesting point about value of NHL’s proxy stats
Keith, asked about his 15 shots over the Blackhawks’ last two games, joked that he was “getting the Corsi up, so you guys think I’m good.” In doing so, he raised a good point about Corsi’s key weakness.

Re: Judging good D

Anon
Anon
Always seeing posts about “ forwards “ and how many goals or assists they get, how good they are and we’re they may likely go. I know it’s a little easier to quantify a forwards skills at this level with how many points they put up. How about the D ? Is it skating, blocking shots, break out passes, corner battles , D to d play on offensive zone , being consistent in the D zone ? Let’s say they don’t put up points very frequently .
IMO, in the absence of stat tracking you can use gap control as a proxy for many important individual defenseman qualities. If they have good gap control they have to have a lot of supporting skills (skating, angling, hockey IQ, etc.) that have to be good too. It's not a statistic and, yes, it's subjective, but it will drive defensive stats like plus-minus, TOI, and Corsi (which I think is a good defenseman measure) but nobody's keeping track of that level of detail at the youth or high-school level. That's why I suggest a proxy like gap control because it is the foundation of success in those stats if they were being tracked.
Gap control ? Really ?

In thirty years of evaluating players I don’t think I have ever heard he has good gap control as a promising factor.

Re: Judging good D

Anon
Anon
Anon
Always seeing posts about “ forwards “ and how many goals or assists they get, how good they are and we’re they may likely go. I know it’s a little easier to quantify a forwards skills at this level with how many points they put up. How about the D ? Is it skating, blocking shots, break out passes, corner battles , D to d play on offensive zone , being consistent in the D zone ? Let’s say they don’t put up points very frequently .
IMO, in the absence of stat tracking you can use gap control as a proxy for many important individual defenseman qualities. If they have good gap control they have to have a lot of supporting skills (skating, angling, hockey IQ, etc.) that have to be good too. It's not a statistic and, yes, it's subjective, but it will drive defensive stats like plus-minus, TOI, and Corsi (which I think is a good defenseman measure) but nobody's keeping track of that level of detail at the youth or high-school level. That's why I suggest a proxy like gap control because it is the foundation of success in those stats if they were being tracked.
Gap control ? Really ?

In thirty years of evaluating players I don’t think I have ever heard he has good gap control as a promising factor.

Then you have not seen/heard anyone evaluating high end players

Re: Judging good D

parents use points and +/-. scouts dissect the stats and put into context ie. PP points v. 5x5 points. level of competition etc.

D get evaluated the same way. Segmented stats. A first pair D playing 35-45% of the game against other teams top line is not the same as a bottom pair D playing half the time with the same +/- line.

So it depends on the level of evaluation but the answer to your question is it's all important and the more things a D does well the better but that's not always possible. That's why there are PP specialists v. PK. Top pair v. bottom pair.

Now having said that it's a game that you need to score to win so the more offensive the better. Offensive skill is often the differentiator. A highly skilled offensive D man will have for more opportunities to advance, even if a defensive liability. Stay at home D are easier to find.

Re: Judging good D

Funny how - "Stay at home D are easier to find" but at most levels it's what wins games. Solid, predictable, sturdy D who make a good first pass.

The risk taking, offensive minded, weak in their own end is fun to watch but the last thing you want on your youth-to-college team. The only thing that saves them in college and pros is to be paired with a good defensive defensemen and a very good goalie - think: Torey Krug.

Re: Judging good D

anon
Funny how - \"Stay at home D are easier to find\" but at most levels it\'s what wins games. Solid, predictable, sturdy D who make a good first pass.

The risk taking, offensive minded, weak in their own end is fun to watch but the last thing you want on your youth-to-college team. The only thing that saves them in college and pros is to be paired with a good defensive defensemen and a very good goalie - think: Torey Krug.
This....:point_up:

the more they say 'the game has changed' the more you realize some parts never do.

Re: Judging good D

CT Huskies moms know good D when they see it.

Re: Judging good D

Just Sayin'
anon
Funny how - \\\"Stay at home D are easier to find\\\" but at most levels it\\\'s what wins games. Solid, predictable, sturdy D who make a good first pass.

The risk taking, offensive minded, weak in their own end is fun to watch but the last thing you want on your youth-to-college team. The only thing that saves them in college and pros is to be paired with a good defensive defensemen and a very good goalie - think: Torey Krug.
This....:point_up:

the more they say 'the game has changed' the more you realize some parts never do.
No one said it stay at home D are not important. What was said was that they are easier to find. Big difference.

Re: Judging good D

Listen to what Bourque and Pothier say. Someone that will make a tape to tape pass to get out of the zone besides the other intangibles. Also +/- is getting a bit anitquated with advanced statistics similar to MLB W/L for pitches