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Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

Anon
Great thread. I honestly believe the DBoard would be so much better with more thoughtful and helpful conversations like this one. Keep it up.


I agree this has been one of the best threads in months.
All very sincere and helpful advise for those looking for answers.

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

My son played town with his buds and was happy, however, when he decided he needed to progress we made jump to EMHL. He landed with a great coach and assistant coaches. Team is much better than his town team. They are learning and having fun. My thoughts is if you have a great coach stick with him and keep developing. Don't worry about e9/Tier 1 at the beginning. As soon as he is no longer challenged in the division then you try to find a move up but better make sure the coach is just as good or better than the one you are leaving

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

Anon
My son played town with his buds and was happy, however, when he decided he needed to progress we made jump to EMHL. He landed with a great coach and assistant coaches. Team is much better than his town team. They are learning and having fun. My thoughts is if you have a great coach stick with him and keep developing. Don't worry about e9/Tier 1 at the beginning. As soon as he is no longer challenged in the division then you try to find a move up but better make sure the coach is just as good or better than the one you are leaving


Made the jump from what town C to EMHL? That is plain funny. I needed a good laugh

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

It's people like you that give youth hockey a bad rap! Kids are developing and if you have not had a reality check....if you have a good coach, work hard and some god given skill it does not matter where they play at ages 8-14. They develop....sorry to say my kid is not a bender, duster or got cut...had offers to play at higher level and chose the coach over league....sorry you are so short sighted...actually no, sorry for your kid!!

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

Anon
It's people like you that give youth hockey a bad rap! Kids are developing and if you have not had a reality check....if you have a good coach, work hard and some god given skill it does not matter where they play at ages 8-14. They develop....sorry to say my kid is not a bender, duster or got cut...had offers to play at higher level and chose the coach over league....sorry you are so short sighted...actually no, sorry for your kid!!


Good for your kid if he had higher offers and stayed put. Question is if he's on the lowest level of your organization (sorry bud that's the EMHL) and was asked to play at a higher level he must be dominating which is counterproductive for development.

It's actually guys like you who ruin youth hockey. Top players should go and be challenged that's not debatable. It's the T1/BHL/PHL etc. that has ruined youth hockey. In the world outside of Mass./NE Hockey we're the laughingstock for all these crap leagues that have sprouted up the past 10-15 years.

Good for your child if he found a great coach, but all coaches are daddy coaches unless they're tools and want to spend 5 days a week with kids who aren't there own. The amount of hours a coach puts in doesn't equate the amount youth teams pay.

Sorry if I ruffled your feathers and it's still funny!

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

Too many parent's on here obsessed with how other citizens spend their money. If they work for a living and want to pay for select hockey stop concerning yourself with it. Parents pay for Skiing, Dance, Club Soccer, Golf, Figure skating, Oboe lessons, etc...why the obsession with the fact that some parents pay more $ for their kid's hockey. Who cares? A little research and a simple excel spreadsheet would show you that they may be actually getting more for their dollar. Some certainly are not, some definitely are.

Moving past that could a dad with some memory and experience answer these few questions relating to town vs select because I honestly have no idea: Question 1: Back 10-15 years ago were town games as short as they are now (50 minutes of ice equating to maybe 30-32 minutes of actual hockey due to running 3rd)? I am guessing this is one of the biggest reasons for moving a kid. I would rather drive 1 hour for a 45 min stop time game I have known about for months, than drive 20 minutes for 33 minutes of hockey I just found out about this month.

Question 2: When did House Leagues go away from the youth/town scene? These allowed less serious kids a fun way to play without parents having to travel. Now all these parents think they need to go play neighboring towns at the C (3,4,5) level. These poor folk are getting all worked up from the meaningless travel and seem to be taking their anger out on the free thinking citizens who simply choose select hockey for their child.

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

Here is my $0.02, take it or leave it.

years and years ago when Town was where all the kids played, back when you pulled your hockey bag out of the basement in September to see what didn't fit anymore after it sat for 5 months, you had true "select" teams.

The top kids from the area would be asked to play on a select team, and you would play an extra game or two on the weekends and maybe have an extra practice a week. Then came Metro league, and again, the top players were selected or asked to play.

My thoughts are this. With that system, the kids who were the best, got better due to more games and playing with competitive and comparable players. The kids who had the potential to be better players wut were not asked did not develop. Therefore you had the best get better and the good stay good or average.

The proliferation of select and club teams in this area provided a way for "bubble" kids or kids that wanted more but were not at that level yet a place to improve and play more with the expectation of moving up to the elite or true "select" levels.

However the expansion was bigger than the sport itself, which led to kids being asked to play on Tier 1 or AAA or "select" teams to fill spots out of necessity and not because they were, or would ever be at that level. Now it is out of control and any kid with good parents and a few bucks can make it on a lower team at a respectable organization unless they are absolutely horrible, leading to select and AAA and Tier 1 teams being worse than Town hockey.

It has given parents a false sense of talent, by allowing kids not at that level to play at that level ! This was readily apparent this week with BB free skate, where outside players came in and took almost all of the roster spots for Elite and Teir 1 teams, and those kids who never should have been there for the past two years are looking for Town tryouts because they cant make it anywhere else, and the parents saying " they played elite EHF for the past two years" are meaningless when compared to kids outside of thier little circle.

In closing, yes it is watered down at all levels, and will not change much as long as people are willing to pay, but each year thee will be lots of parents and kids who realized they were chasing a ghost and there kids truly does not belong, unfortunately, for everyone there will be another kid and parent chasing that same ghost, so it will continue. So you will end up with town A teams that need to fill their rosters with B/C players, Elite teams that need to fill thier rosters with Tier 1 AAA players, and AAA and Teir 1 teams that need to fill thier rosters with Town A/B/C players... It will probably never end any time soon

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

Anon
Here is my $0.02, take it or leave it.

years and years ago when Town was where all the kids played, back when you pulled your hockey bag out of the basement in September to see what didn't fit anymore after it sat for 5 months, you had true "select" teams.

The top kids from the area would be asked to play on a select team, and you would play an extra game or two on the weekends and maybe have an extra practice a week. Then came Metro league, and again, the top players were selected or asked to play.

My thoughts are this. With that system, the kids who were the best, got better due to more games and playing with competitive and comparable players. The kids who had the potential to be better players wut were not asked did not develop. Therefore you had the best get better and the good stay good or average.

The proliferation of select and club teams in this area provided a way for "bubble" kids or kids that wanted more but were not at that level yet a place to improve and play more with the expectation of moving up to the elite or true "select" levels.

However the expansion was bigger than the sport itself, which led to kids being asked to play on Tier 1 or AAA or "select" teams to fill spots out of necessity and not because they were, or would ever be at that level. Now it is out of control and any kid with good parents and a few bucks can make it on a lower team at a respectable organization unless they are absolutely horrible, leading to select and AAA and Tier 1 teams being worse than Town hockey.

It has given parents a false sense of talent, by allowing kids not at that level to play at that level ! This was readily apparent this week with BB free skate, where outside players came in and took almost all of the roster spots for Elite and Teir 1 teams, and those kids who never should have been there for the past two years are looking for Town tryouts because they cant make it anywhere else, and the parents saying " they played elite EHF for the past two years" are meaningless when compared to kids outside of thier little circle.

In closing, yes it is watered down at all levels, and will not change much as long as people are willing to pay, but each year thee will be lots of parents and kids who realized they were chasing a ghost and there kids truly does not belong, unfortunately, for everyone there will be another kid and parent chasing that same ghost, so it will continue. So you will end up with town A teams that need to fill their rosters with B/C players, Elite teams that need to fill thier rosters with Tier 1 AAA players, and AAA and Teir 1 teams that need to fill thier rosters with Town A/B/C players... It will probably never end any time soon


Very good take! Definitely has merit.

Owners of those past teams typically had Day jobs or other (main) sources of income. It was more of a hobby or a way to stay involved in the sport. Now over the last 10-15 years the owners ( and Rink owners) have seen the demand and opportunity to make money and have taken full advantage of it. Honestly, more kids on the ice ( and more hours per week) is a good thing. Problem is we live in a society where everything is online and on social media. The frenzy reaches a breaking point and it starts to take on a life of it's own. Same reason Trump was able to win the Presidency!

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

Anon
Here is my $0.02, take it or leave it.

years and years ago when Town was where all the kids played, back when you pulled your hockey bag out of the basement in September to see what didn't fit anymore after it sat for 5 months, you had true "select" teams.

The top kids from the area would be asked to play on a select team, and you would play an extra game or two on the weekends and maybe have an extra practice a week. Then came Metro league, and again, the top players were selected or asked to play.

My thoughts are this. With that system, the kids who were the best, got better due to more games and playing with competitive and comparable players. The kids who had the potential to be better players wut were not asked did not develop. Therefore you had the best get better and the good stay good or average.

The proliferation of select and club teams in this area provided a way for "bubble" kids or kids that wanted more but were not at that level yet a place to improve and play more with the expectation of moving up to the elite or true "select" levels.

However the expansion was bigger than the sport itself, which led to kids being asked to play on Tier 1 or AAA or "select" teams to fill spots out of necessity and not because they were, or would ever be at that level. Now it is out of control and any kid with good parents and a few bucks can make it on a lower team at a respectable organization unless they are absolutely horrible, leading to select and AAA and Tier 1 teams being worse than Town hockey.

It has given parents a false sense of talent, by allowing kids not at that level to play at that level ! This was readily apparent this week with BB free skate, where outside players came in and took almost all of the roster spots for Elite and Teir 1 teams, and those kids who never should have been there for the past two years are looking for Town tryouts because they cant make it anywhere else, and the parents saying " they played elite EHF for the past two years" are meaningless when compared to kids outside of thier little circle.

In closing, yes it is watered down at all levels, and will not change much as long as people are willing to pay, but each year thee will be lots of parents and kids who realized they were chasing a ghost and there kids truly does not belong, unfortunately, for everyone there will be another kid and parent chasing that same ghost, so it will continue. So you will end up with town A teams that need to fill their rosters with B/C players, Elite teams that need to fill thier rosters with Tier 1 AAA players, and AAA and Teir 1 teams that need to fill thier rosters with Town A/B/C players... It will probably never end any time soon


It is called free enterprise my man. Hockey is a business. It has been this way in Canada for years. Do what makes you happy.

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

Dicky Dunn
Anon
Here is my $0.02, take it or leave it.

years and years ago when Town was where all the kids played, back when you pulled your hockey bag out of the basement in September to see what didn't fit anymore after it sat for 5 months, you had true "select" teams.

The top kids from the area would be asked to play on a select team, and you would play an extra game or two on the weekends and maybe have an extra practice a week. Then came Metro league, and again, the top players were selected or asked to play.

My thoughts are this. With that system, the kids who were the best, got better due to more games and playing with competitive and comparable players. The kids who had the potential to be better players wut were not asked did not develop. Therefore you had the best get better and the good stay good or average.

The proliferation of select and club teams in this area provided a way for "bubble" kids or kids that wanted more but were not at that level yet a place to improve and play more with the expectation of moving up to the elite or true "select" levels.

However the expansion was bigger than the sport itself, which led to kids being asked to play on Tier 1 or AAA or "select" teams to fill spots out of necessity and not because they were, or would ever be at that level. Now it is out of control and any kid with good parents and a few bucks can make it on a lower team at a respectable organization unless they are absolutely horrible, leading to select and AAA and Tier 1 teams being worse than Town hockey.

It has given parents a false sense of talent, by allowing kids not at that level to play at that level ! This was readily apparent this week with BB free skate, where outside players came in and took almost all of the roster spots for Elite and Teir 1 teams, and those kids who never should have been there for the past two years are looking for Town tryouts because they cant make it anywhere else, and the parents saying " they played elite EHF for the past two years" are meaningless when compared to kids outside of thier little circle.

In closing, yes it is watered down at all levels, and will not change much as long as people are willing to pay, but each year thee will be lots of parents and kids who realized they were chasing a ghost and there kids truly does not belong, unfortunately, for everyone there will be another kid and parent chasing that same ghost, so it will continue. So you will end up with town A teams that need to fill their rosters with B/C players, Elite teams that need to fill thier rosters with Tier 1 AAA players, and AAA and Teir 1 teams that need to fill thier rosters with Town A/B/C players... It will probably never end any time soon


It is called free enterprise my man. Hockey is a business. It has been this way in Canada for years. Do what makes you happy.


That's right! If we can make it viable in a Socialist country like ours, than you sure has heck can make it work in the good ol US of A. Ay?

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

Pierre Trudeau
Dicky Dunn
Anon
Here is my $0.02, take it or leave it.

years and years ago when Town was where all the kids played, back when you pulled your hockey bag out of the basement in September to see what didn't fit anymore after it sat for 5 months, you had true "select" teams.

The top kids from the area would be asked to play on a select team, and you would play an extra game or two on the weekends and maybe have an extra practice a week. Then came Metro league, and again, the top players were selected or asked to play.

My thoughts are this. With that system, the kids who were the best, got better due to more games and playing with competitive and comparable players. The kids who had the potential to be better players wut were not asked did not develop. Therefore you had the best get better and the good stay good or average.

The proliferation of select and club teams in this area provided a way for "bubble" kids or kids that wanted more but were not at that level yet a place to improve and play more with the expectation of moving up to the elite or true "select" levels.

However the expansion was bigger than the sport itself, which led to kids being asked to play on Tier 1 or AAA or "select" teams to fill spots out of necessity and not because they were, or would ever be at that level. Now it is out of control and any kid with good parents and a few bucks can make it on a lower team at a respectable organization unless they are absolutely horrible, leading to select and AAA and Tier 1 teams being worse than Town hockey.

It has given parents a false sense of talent, by allowing kids not at that level to play at that level ! This was readily apparent this week with BB free skate, where outside players came in and took almost all of the roster spots for Elite and Teir 1 teams, and those kids who never should have been there for the past two years are looking for Town tryouts because they cant make it anywhere else, and the parents saying " they played elite EHF for the past two years" are meaningless when compared to kids outside of thier little circle.

In closing, yes it is watered down at all levels, and will not change much as long as people are willing to pay, but each year thee will be lots of parents and kids who realized they were chasing a ghost and there kids truly does not belong, unfortunately, for everyone there will be another kid and parent chasing that same ghost, so it will continue. So you will end up with town A teams that need to fill their rosters with B/C players, Elite teams that need to fill thier rosters with Tier 1 AAA players, and AAA and Teir 1 teams that need to fill thier rosters with Town A/B/C players... It will probably never end any time soon


It is called free enterprise my man. Hockey is a business. It has been this way in Canada for years. Do what makes you happy.


That's right! If we can make it viable in a Socialist country like ours, than you sure has heck can make it work in the good ol US of A. Ay?
thanks anon for you $.02 ...so true

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

Anon
Here is my $0.02, take it or leave it.

years and years ago when Town was where all the kids played, back when you pulled your hockey bag out of the basement in September to see what didn't fit anymore after it sat for 5 months, you had true "select" teams.

The top kids from the area would be asked to play on a select team, and you would play an extra game or two on the weekends and maybe have an extra practice a week. Then came Metro league, and again, the top players were selected or asked to play.

My thoughts are this. With that system, the kids who were the best, got better due to more games and playing with competitive and comparable players. The kids who had the potential to be better players wut were not asked did not develop. Therefore you had the best get better and the good stay good or average.

The proliferation of select and club teams in this area provided a way for "bubble" kids or kids that wanted more but were not at that level yet a place to improve and play more with the expectation of moving up to the elite or true "select" levels.

However the expansion was bigger than the sport itself, which led to kids being asked to play on Tier 1 or AAA or "select" teams to fill spots out of necessity and not because they were, or would ever be at that level. Now it is out of control and any kid with good parents and a few bucks can make it on a lower team at a respectable organization unless they are absolutely horrible, leading to select and AAA and Tier 1 teams being worse than Town hockey.

It has given parents a false sense of talent, by allowing kids not at that level to play at that level ! This was readily apparent this week with BB free skate, where outside players came in and took almost all of the roster spots for Elite and Teir 1 teams, and those kids who never should have been there for the past two years are looking for Town tryouts because they cant make it anywhere else, and the parents saying " they played elite EHF for the past two years" are meaningless when compared to kids outside of thier little circle.

In closing, yes it is watered down at all levels, and will not change much as long as people are willing to pay, but each year thee will be lots of parents and kids who realized they were chasing a ghost and there kids truly does not belong, unfortunately, for everyone there will be another kid and parent chasing that same ghost, so it will continue. So you will end up with town A teams that need to fill their rosters with B/C players, Elite teams that need to fill thier rosters with Tier 1 AAA players, and AAA and Teir 1 teams that need to fill thier rosters with Town A/B/C players... It will probably never end any time soon


All accurate but I think you are missing one very important part of the move to club. Many of the rinks our kids play in are state owned, privately run rinks. As the state privatized the rinks, the private companies running the rinks had to make them a profitable venture. The first noticeable difference, the earlier start to the seasons, forcing organizations to have ice contracts starting 9/1.

The next step was the expansion of club programs. Because they charge more, the club teams were able to buy up ice 9/1-4/1 but they also buy "dead time" sheets to ensure they get the prime slots. So a rink might be open until midnight on paper but the club buys the 11-midnight slot, knowing it will never be used, they ensure they get 6-9 slots as well, helping make clubs an attractive alternative.

You can continue to connect the dots from here but really go back to the decision to privatize the rinks and from there you will start to see a fairly rapid expansion of club programs in parallel.

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

Now THERE is a topic Elizabeth Warren could advance instead of her non-stop "Me! Me! Me! Look at me" embarrassment that she has become. take back the rinks. At least it would have some impact on her constituents instead of promoting gridlock, denouncing one of the region's biggest employers (financial services) and immature Twitter fights with the president.

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

anon
Now THERE is a topic Elizabeth Warren could advance instead of her non-stop "Me! Me! Me! Look at me" embarrassment that she has become. take back the rinks. At least it would have some impact on her constituents instead of promoting gridlock, denouncing one of the region's biggest employers (financial services) and immature Twitter fights with the president.


Trump does not need her for all his twitter wars. How many does he have going at once?

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

So, what do the parents do if the kid is better than the kids on the best town team at his age level? AAA gives the kid an option to play with kids on their level....oh by the way, improving so they can move up in the future if the kid works hard and has some skill. After all, they are still young, most of those younger elite/T1 kids end up not being the best anymore....gotta love the late bloomers! Eichel; Kessler so on...not saying any of these kids are going to the NHL but all kids dream!! Most select teams have far more ice time and provide decent skills for those late bloomers to develop...the only parents that are left wondering is the elite mite that didn't stay elite as the years went on....nothing anyone can do about that!

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

Anon
So, what do the parents do if the kid is better than the kids on the best town team at his age level? AAA gives the kid an option to play with kids on their level....oh by the way, improving so they can move up in the future if the kid works hard and has some skill. After all, they are still young, most of those younger elite/T1 kids end up not being the best anymore....gotta love the late bloomers! Eichel; Kessler so on...not saying any of these kids are going to the NHL but all kids dream!! Most select teams have far more ice time and provide decent skills for those late bloomers to develop...the only parents that are left wondering is the elite mite that didn't stay elite as the years went on....nothing anyone can do about that!


Ideal !! but the numerous teams are allowing kids on the lower third of thier Town B team to play selects because their parents are mad they didn't make the top team.

I love the kids ( and that is a good amount of older Tier 1 players ) who played town, selects and worked their way into elite level at the later ages and bypassed all of the kids that were better than them at Mites/Squirts/Pee Wee.

Take whichever route is best for you and your kid, and if your kid wants to be on teh ice seven days a week, but is not elite at squirts but can keep up then AAA is right where they belong, and they will continue to develop year after year while the "elite" mites and squirts drop off !!

Re: watering down of Club? Draining Town

It happens in every sport. Happens in school too. We just don't start message boards for those activities to air out our frustrations. All this talk happens in private.